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[Tiruin]

The whole "scum-types" thing was simultaneously an intimidation tactic (trying to see if I could pull a Wuba--that sort of thing always worked really well on me) and an attempt to leave something I've found useful for posterity.  Yeah, I know, I know.

TBH, this part was confusing me, meaning that attempt of Wuba-ness works.

Also, my view on NQT is...wavering, especially in the recent hours. While his evasion of questions could be alluded to some kind of busy-ness, or stuff, that was a lot of time to notice what is being addressed to you. A lot of darn time. Laziness doesn't factor into the equation as his posting isn't sporadic (cheers to me wondering why he's joking here).

Still, NQT

Finally! Okay, we're on the home stretch now- we've only got one more scum to hunt down. The odds are almost irrevocably in out favour. Let's not lose sight of the goal.

Irrevocably? What did you do to catch and find scum?

[Teneb]

Deathsword and Habah, what do you think of the proceedings?  Who is the last scumbucket?

Could you explain what you mean by proceedings?


As for whom is the last scum, I am not completely sure, I am going through the game to see if I notice anything.

NQT:Why are you acting as if you helped lynch Dariush (which you didn't)? Then there was this:

I can see why you'd vote Dariush. On votes alone he has a fairly scummy read: enough people have voted for him to make mason seem unlikely, and he's consistently urged lynches on people later proven to be mason or town (this latter point is true of Tiruin as well). This is enough to look suspicious, but shucks, he could be town with bad luck chosing targets. So give me another good reason why we should lynch him

If he looked suspicious, why didn't you question him? Why did you raise the possibility of being unlucky town? It looks to me as if you were trying to defend Dariush without attracting too much attention or look like you were defending him.

[Vector]

Just, "what do you think of everything that's going on?"  Who is in your possible-scum pool?  What do you plan to do to arrive at a verdict?  And so on, and so forth.

[Hapah]

I'm still alive! I'll give all the recent events a read tomorrow.

[zombie urist]

Well, I guess the main example on how my meta has changed...

That's nice. I didn't really care.

I checked some of Dariush's recent behavior before attacking him on meta grounds, just to make sure he was behaving the same.  As he does seem to be, I saw no harm in making a meta argument.

Really? Because IMO Dariush's behavior has changed significantly since I've started playing. (which I believe is pretty close to when you quit)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Habah

I don't know why, but I think this is pretty funny.

On the other hand, Toaster's reasons have been really weak the entire game. Huuuuuuh.

[Vector]

Okay, how has his meta changed?  Enlighten me.

[notquitethere]

Sorry for the small absence folks: my laptop's been shutting itself off every fifteen minutes at the moment.

Vector

I thought you had experience elsewhere?

Oh, and please answer this.

Not on forum games. I've played a few live games, but that's mostly sitting around in a circle wildly pointing hands.

Yes, I read the entire thread.  Here's what I want to know: if you thought Dariush was scum, then why didn't you vote to lynch him?

I said he was most likely scum, or more accurately, he was a strong candidate for being scum. Y'all were on track to lynching him so he didn't need my bandwagon vote. I was beginning to think he might not be scum when there was nobody dying from scum-kills, but then Dariush up and killed himself with his rebounded strike. Here's one such place where I note my suspicions:

It's not intended as a bandwagon, Dariush, it's a pressure vote. If I'm not satisfied that Toaster is scum I will unvote like I did with TZZ. The vote record method is not bullshit and it's beginning to show results. I argued that Ford and TZZ were most likely not scum with reference to voting patterns and to everyone's surprise but my own they weren't scum. By its metric, you're pretty damn suspicious Dariush, having a 100% mislynch record. You've either got bad luck, bad judgement or you're scum.

Furthermore, you still haven't replied to my question and you're voting the guy who (*drumroll*) is up for replacement.

What are your reads?  What clears ZombieUrist and Deathsword?

I didn't realise he was still up for replacement. Does it matter? If Toaster looks suspicious then so will whoever takes his place.

I gave my reads a few pages back and they mostly still stand. Nothing clears ZU and Deathsword. DS has been smeared with moderate masonry by Tiruin's claim. ZU appears town or a very smart scum. I'm still keeping in mind Ford's multi-part take-down of ZU in one of his pre-death posts.

Tiruin

NQT: You're missing quite a lot of questions addressed to you, why is that?

I've only been able to post from phone and have been very busy this last week. If there's still questions unanswered from this batch, please do point them out. I'm usually pretty good at answering people.

Toaster- am I mistaken, but were you blind to Dariush's potential maleficence?

What in the world are you acting upon here? Reason behind this vote, and how you came up with it. How Dariush matters with this.

The most important information that we have at this time is that Dariush was scum. As far as I can tell, Toaster had no suspicions to that end. You don't like my style, Tiruin, or is something more than that?

Finally! Okay, we're on the home stretch now- we've only got one more scum to hunt down. The odds are almost irrevocably in out favour. Let's not lose sight of the goal.

Irrevocably? What did you do to catch and find scum?

Irrevocably, as in, cannot be revoked; no turning back; town are probably going to win. What have I done? I've logically looked at how people have voted and offered up my suspicions based on this information. Technically, no one has caught any scum in this game, as they've all self-destructed. Dariush's death makes me think you're mason claim might be made-up.

DS

NQT:Why are you acting as if you helped lynch Dariush (which you didn't)? Then there was this:

I can see why you'd vote Dariush. On votes alone he has a fairly scummy read: enough people have voted for him to make mason seem unlikely, and he's consistently urged lynches on people later proven to be mason or town (this latter point is true of Tiruin as well). This is enough to look suspicious, but shucks, he could be town with bad luck chosing targets. So give me another good reason why we should lynch him

If he looked suspicious, why didn't you question him? Why did you raise the possibility of being unlucky town? It looks to me as if you were trying to defend Dariush without attracting too much attention or look like you were defending him.

I did question him (see the quote above and elsewhere). I've said several times that given that he had helped lynch three innocent people in a row, he looked suspicious. He was on track for a hanging, they didn't need my vote and I didn't want everyone else to escape notice. That's how scum win. Futhermore, there's a difference between defending someone and trying to be as fair as possible to each person. Let us not be blinded by lazy suspicions.

Everyone: Do let me know if I've missed any of your questions.

[Teneb]

PFP I'll answer vector later.

DS

NQT:Why are you acting as if you helped lynch Dariush (which you didn't)? Then there was this:

I can see why you'd vote Dariush. On votes alone he has a fairly scummy read: enough people have voted for him to make mason seem unlikely, and he's consistently urged lynches on people later proven to be mason or town (this latter point is true of Tiruin as well). This is enough to look suspicious, but shucks, he could be town with bad luck chosing targets. So give me another good reason why we should lynch him

If he looked suspicious, why didn't you question him? Why did you raise the possibility of being unlucky town? It looks to me as if you were trying to defend Dariush without attracting too much attention or look like you were defending him.

I did question him (see the quote above and elsewhere). I've said several times that given that he had helped lynch three innocent people in a row, he looked suspicious. He was on track for a hanging, they didn't need my vote and I didn't want everyone else to escape notice. That's how scum win. Futhermore, there's a difference between defending someone and trying to be as fair as possible to each person. Let us not be blinded by lazy suspicions.

You say you thought he was supicious, but you've barely asked him any questions, you just sat on the sidelines while he was lynched. If he was suspicious, why didn't you ask him more questions? If he was suspicious why didn't you vote him to ensure there wouldn't be any ties (and there was one I ended up breaking)?

[Tiruin]

I know what irrevocably means. I was asking why that certain term in that certain style of wording.

Next,

What have I done? I've logically looked at how people have voted and offered up my suspicions based on this information. Technically, no one has caught any scum in this game, as they've all self-destructed. Dariush's death makes me think you're mason claim might be made-up.

What the-

...Alright, I really believe you're being super jumpy. One, you keep on worrying about 'IF MY CLAIM IS TRUE THEN WE'RE ALL DEAD'. Now...what is this?

What do you think about my mason claim and its relevance according to the people mentioned, and their replies to it?

What do you think about me, and my colleagues mentioned?

Now you see Dariush tried to shoot someone once he was convinced that he was going to be lynched - at least being useful before death. You vote Toaster because...either his vote was with Dar's, or he didn't vote Dariush. Toaster had no suspicions at that end (because he did request replacement and was busy) [Toaster needs to answer why he just jump-voted while being in replacement, giving off a blank reason why, though.] but that does not reconcile your efforts in...well, that.

Was that a pressure vote? If so, do you intend it to stay there? If not, what made it stick?

And IMO, I think we did 'catch' scum. He just used an alternative which would at least do something other than wait and die (though, Dar, you shouldn't have sacrificed sleep to just shoot someone, you could've done it before sleepy-time judging by how things were going, but I don't know your timezone and this is just helpful advice).

Now other than what Toaster did. What makes you think Toaster, among everyone else, deserve your vote?

PPE: DS

[Toaster]

Tiruin:  If you recall, I was voting NQT yesterday, and any reasons I posted then still hold.

For the record, my gut tells me you're scum too.

[notquitethere]

DS
These are fair questions. In many ways I'm still finding my feet with Mafia. I probably haven't been applying as much pressure on people as I should have been. I would have changed my vote if it looked like there was still going to be a tie at day's end, but Dariush offed himself before it came to that.

Tiruin

Next,

What have I done? I've logically looked at how people have voted and offered up my suspicions based on this information. Technically, no one has caught any scum in this game, as they've all self-destructed. Dariush's death makes me think you're mason claim might be made-up.

What the-

...Alright, I really believe you're being super jumpy. One, you keep on worrying about 'IF MY CLAIM IS TRUE THEN WE'RE ALL DEAD'. Now...what is this?

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as jumpy. Tone can be hard to convey fully in a purely text-medium. My earlier worry was well-founded, I genuinely thought your mason claiming was an ill-judged move for town and I've explained quite sufficiently why this is the case. What is what exactly? I'm not being evasive here, I'm sure everyone else will agree with me when I say that sometimes your posts aren't as clear as they might be.

What do you think about my mason claim and its relevance according to the people mentioned, and their replies to it?

It depends. If you're telling the truth, it was an awful idea. The fact that Dariush is dead makes me think you were lying. Your supposed mason-buddies have been a bit quiet and non-committal on the issue as far as I can make out. Hapah, DS, was Tiruin's claim a good move for town?

What do you think about me, and my colleagues mentioned?

You looked suspicious before, having consistently lynched town-folk just like Dariush. Hapah and DS I read as fairly null nowadays. The only person I know almost certainly isn't a mason is Toaster (as he voted TolyK in a way likely to lead to Toly's death).

Now you see Dariush tried to shoot someone once he was convinced that he was going to be lynched - at least being useful before death. You vote Toaster because...either his vote was with Dar's, or he didn't vote Dariush. Toaster had no suspicions at that end (because he did request replacement and was busy) [Toaster needs to answer why he just jump-voted while being in replacement, giving off a blank reason why, though.] but that does not reconcile your efforts in...well, that.

Was that a pressure vote? If so, do you intend it to stay there? If not, what made it stick?

Now other than what Toaster did. What makes you think Toaster, among everyone else, deserve your vote?

Toaster voted for someone who later turned out to be a mason, so is probably either scum or town. Toaster also voted for Ford for bullshit meta reasons, which has made me consistently suspicious since then. I was pressuring Toaster on the Dariush issue but Dariush isn't the reason why Toaster looks guilty to me.

In any case, now it's clear that Toaster is genuinely asking for replacement, I'll look into other people until a replacement is found.

UNVOTE

And IMO, I think we did 'catch' scum. He just used an alternative which would at least do something other than wait and die

Sure, that's why I said 'technically'. But I take your point, town pressured him to death.

Have I answered your questions satisfactorily yet? I've got a question though, Tiruin, can you give us some solid reasons why we should believe your mason claim?


Proper Dariush post-lynch analysis upcoming.

[Tiruin]

I've got a question though, Tiruin, can you give us some solid reasons why we should believe your mason claim?

Why should you, by the way? I put that out because the game was dying at the time. I put that out as hopes to get things rolling - obviously, I didn't state my whole team (because counter-intuitive to the goal, duh) but who I did state was true. Now the fun part is if you'd believe it or not, see my one post on WIFOM'ing scum.

It depends. If you're telling the truth, it was an awful idea. The fact that Dariush is dead makes me think you were lying. Your supposed mason-buddies have been a bit quiet and non-committal on the issue as far as I can make out. Hapah, DS, was Tiruin's claim a good move for town?

Why Hapah? And the fact that Dariush is dead means...what? My supposed buddies have been quiet since when?

You looked suspicious before, having consistently lynched town-folk just like Dariush. Hapah and DS I read as fairly null nowadays. The only person I know almost certainly isn't a mason is Toaster (as he voted TolyK in a way likely to lead to Toly's death).

Hey, handsome. If you'd recall there were many other people who have 'consistently lynched town-folk' to use your own words. Using this as a foundation of your case is just wrong - as Vector said, you need to come up with concrete proof and not something as "Oh no, Tiruin's vote was on this person who lynched. He's town! Tiruin is suspicious."

Expound on the TolyK thing more though, quotes would be preferred.

In any case, now it's clear that Toaster is genuinely asking for replacement, I'll look into other people until a replacement is found.

He was genuinely asking for a replacement before that. Right now, I'm not even sure he's genuinely asking for a replacement as he's still voting and giving his opinion.

Tiruin:  If you recall, I was voting NQT yesterday, and any reasons I posted then still hold.

For the record, my gut tells me you're scum too.

Could you explain why? If you're going to give reads but in the least not act, revoke your request for replacement.

And we've only got 1 scum left. Count it right.

[Toaster]

Why on you or NQT?  If NQT, are you really asking me to repost endlessly?  If you...

And we've only got 1 scum left. Count it right.

...Derp.  Well, since NQT is scum you're not.  Oh well. 


Minimum contribution's not really justifiable for staying in, but I'd at least like to help keep the game alive by doing something.  I don't want to see it die for lack of replacements.

[Tiruin]

Minimum contribution's not really justifiable for staying in, but I'd at least like to help keep the game alive by doing something.  I don't want to see it die for lack of replacements.

Good point...Sorry if I nudged you wrong >.>

And I forgot to put this in:

NQT:

Proper Dariush post-lynch analysis upcoming.

Add this to the list of questions to be answered.

Why are you going to analyze a dead man's lynch? And from where are you deriving such...seemingly soon to be presumed valid information?

[Vector]

. . . NQT, I have a really hard time believing that you're both town-aligned and having trouble figuring out Deathsword's mason claim.  Indeed, the person most interested in whether or not Deathsword would be telling the truth on that particular information should be the final scumbag.