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[Vector]

I thought you had experience elsewhere?


I'm not voting on his vote and success patterns, you silly person.  You're the only one who's relying on those metrics, and the only reason why you think those would convince anyone is thanks to a lack of experience. 

As I said, I'm voting him for

a. expediency
b. meta
c. lurking
d. hypocrisy
e. weak reasoning

Reasons why we should lynch him are b-e in combination.  Dariush is a smart, vicious guy.  All of this is scummy on its own, but given the way he plays most of the time it's certifiably lynchworthy.

What I didn't say is that (f.) lynching him also yields the most information from the possibly-scum pool, so there's that, too.

[Tiruin]

PFP

NQT: please answer the statement addressed to you here.

Vector

NotQuiteThere: How long have you been playing mafia, and how many times have you played scum? Do you usually win as scum?

Sorry to say I've only completed a BM, where I was the cop and killed on the first night. I've only been playing Mafia a couple of months.

I can see why you'd vote Dariush. On votes alone he has a fairly scummy read: enough people have voted for him to make mason seem unlikely, and he's consistently urged lynches on people later proven to be mason or town (this latter point is true of Tiruin as well). This is enough to look suspicious, but shucks, he could be town with bad luck chosing targets. So give me another good reason why we should lynch him.

(As for us being scumbuddies, that's ridiculous: everyone knows Deathsword is my scumbuddy.)

I already told you, Dariush isn't a mason. And no, DS isn't your scumbuddy, curse you for using a brick joke.

Also...wait what? You're dropping your theory and turn with the bolded part?

What shifted your attitude from this one?

[notquitethere]

Tiruin

So if you've the time to answer, I believe he's been giving his statement (and do agree with you there) but also left enough space to consider other's arguments. He didn't state it like it was a law or a rule, though.

NQT: What do you have to say for that?

Say for what? What are you asking me? If you're asking me whether you gave a fair assessment of my position, sure: I didn't say it was a rule or law.

Also...wait what? You're dropping your theory and turn with the bolded part?

What shifted your attitude from this one?

No, I just know that despite it being a sensible way to proceed, other people don't find looking at voting patterns as compelling evidence as I do. I wanted to know what Vector thought, and now I do.

Vector
Okay, I can see your general reasons. What kind of information would it give us if Dariush turns out to be town?

[Tiruin]

Why do you keep on insisting an 'if he was town' position? What would you infer if he was scum?

[Vector]

No, I just know that despite it being a sensible way to proceed, other people don't find looking at voting patterns as compelling evidence as I do. I wanted to know what Vector thought, and now I do.

I have never seen anyone succeed using your method in this context.  Now, that does not mean that it is worthless, but the problem is that it's a method requiring such a quantity of asymmetrical data in order to resolve on scum that what you end up doing is sitting back and lynching lurkers because "you know they're anti-town" rather than gathering scumtells--heuristical tips that would help you narrow down the information in the voting patterns.

You don't need to kill players who are failing to help the town.  You need to find and kill scum, and that's always your first and last priority.

Furthermore, any player with experience will understand this method of play as profoundly unhelpful, because it's an ultimately safe, unrisky method.  Scum can employ it just as easily as town, and it provides so little information in the beginning game that getting down to LYLO is virtually guaranteed.  You provide no telling data about yourself, and you don't dig up any useful dirt on others.  Yes, it is objectively true information, but it is only slightly better than shitposting and lurking.

Indeed, keep tabs on this stuff for yourself, but only publish results when you have conclusive evidence, or are trying to pull it out of people.  This game is an information game, but not the one you think it is.

Vector
Okay, I can see your general reasons. What kind of information would it give us if Dariush turns out to be town?

It will tell me a lot about you and the collection of folks voting Dariush.

I thought you had experience elsewhere?

Oh, and please answer this.

[Leafsnail]

Hacker Hands Himself in to Police - Warns "Time is running out"
February 23rd, 2030
A man has been arrested after making a post online confessing to being a member of Pseudonym, including evidence to accompany this.  The post was made in a dedicated discussion space for active police officers.

According to police the man, known as "Dariush" online, did not attempt to resist arrest.  He did however say that he was a "mafia goon", and that if the final mafia goon were to fall Pseudonym would likely return to its original strength.

A police chief has dismissed this claim as "laughable", pointing out that half of the members of Pseudonym are now believed to be in custody.  He also confirmed that court cases against 7 alleged hackers including Dariush are intended to begin in the coming months.

Dariush has been doxxed.

He was a mafia goon.

The votecount has now been reset, and the deadline is in a week's time.

With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

[Dariush]

Huh. Who could've guessed that choosing kill targets when half-asleep from exhaustion and knowing you'll be asleep when the day ends is not such an easy task as it sounds like.

[Vector]

Right, I'm convinced.

Notquitethere is a perfect example of deconstructionist scum.  Hang!

[notquitethere]

Finally! Okay, we're on the home stretch now- we've only got one more scum to hunt down. The odds are almost irrevocably in out favour. Let's not lose sight of the goal.

Right, I'm convinced.

Notquitethere is a perfect example of deconstructionist scum.  Hang!

I appreciate the compliment- it's nice to know I purportedly perfect at something, but are you mad brother? Have you even read the thread? I was arguing that Dariush was most likely scum! But congrats are in order: you pegged Dariush for what exactly what he was. This gives me +points in your favour.

I'm not going to OMGUS, because, vote patterns taken into account, you're probably town. Highly mistaken, but probably town.

DS, it's a new day: who do you think is most likely scum?

Toaster- am I mistaken, but were you blind to Dariush's potential maleficence?

[Vector]

Yes, I read the entire thread.  Here's what I want to know: if you thought Dariush was scum, then why didn't you vote to lynch him?

[Vector]

Furthermore, you still haven't replied to my question and you're voting the guy who (*drumroll*) is up for replacement.

What are your reads?  What clears ZombieUrist and Deathsword?

[Tiruin]

NQT: You're missing quite a lot of questions addressed to you, why is that?

Lastly,

Toaster- am I mistaken, but were you blind to Dariush's potential maleficence?

What in the world are you acting upon here? Reason behind this vote, and how you came up with it. How Dariush matters with this.

[Toaster]

I'm paying enough attention to know when NQT is making shit up.

[zombie urist]

Does your vote even count?

Anyways...
Dariush was voting NQT and we know Dariush was scum. Dariush never addressed NQT after the vote up until the time he died. I'm still not sure what to make of this.

Toaster's meta-case on Ford was IMO mostly BS, especially now that Ford flipped town. I dunno.

I'm still slightly worried that Vector is the last scum. I don't like how you're relying a lot on meta, especially since you've been absent for such a long time. (and claim that your own meta has changed)

Spoiler: current list of players (click to show/hide)

(Toaster)
Vector
Tiruin
NQT
Hapah
DS
ZU
This is for me to see who's still in the game.

[Vector]

Well, I guess the main example on how my meta has changed is that I don't expect to have big flaming anxiety attacks all over the subforum and scumchats anymore, but the main thing I was worried about was activity-meta--I used to skip classes and play mafia instead, so I just want to be sure folks know that this time around, I'm not going to be doing that sort of thing.  Anything else y'all have may or may not be good, I honestly don't know.

I checked some of Dariush's recent behavior before attacking him on meta grounds, just to make sure he was behaving the same.  As he does seem to be, I saw no harm in making a meta argument.

However, I haven't been providing quotations because I was reaction testing.  I was hoping I'd find some trigger-happy last scum to vote me for the little holes I left (not answering a couple of questions, being a little floppy, generally screwing around with little cited evidence), but no one's taken the bait.  The whole "scum-types" thing was simultaneously an intimidation tactic (trying to see if I could pull a Wuba--that sort of thing always worked really well on me) and an attempt to leave something I've found useful for posterity.  Yeah, I know, I know.

I'm guessing current scum strategy will be (if it's an option) to lurk until LYLO.


Anyway, pretty much the minute I started reading NQTs posts I thought he was scum.  He spewed out loads and loads of questions during RVS with almost no pressure, stays on the periphery and just... I dunno, my read isn't very stable.  Part of me wants to say he's just a guy who isn't used to how things are done here, and part of me sees nontrivial amounts of the mistakes I nearly always make when I play scum (which is why I keep on asking him how much experience he has).

I'll make a big case once I have a better read on everyone who's currently playing, but for now the question dodging and all that crap leave me thinking Dariush was just distancing and NQT is our guy.

Deathsword and Habah, what do you think of the proceedings?  Who is the last scumbucket?