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[Frumple]

*Can start by looking into fairly old, at this point, research into priming in regards to violence and work your way forward and around. It's not something we want in a classroom, especially for younger kids.

I'm genuinely curious, could you point me in the right direction to look into this?

Give a google for "priming violence sociology", sans quotes. Seems to be pulling up a bit of related material -- I'd have to dig out one of my textbooks to cite the specific study I'm recalling at you. Which... if you're interested, I could PM something to you sometime tomorrow. Too late to go digging through the car to find the book, heh.

[Putnam]

That's a strikeout for me, off to the ignore list.

We banned alcohol in the 30s. Didn't work.

Bullshit. Prohibition brought alcohol use down by 33%. It was repealed because democracy is a thing.

Of course. So law abiding citizens stopped doing it. Owning a gun is not a problem. Using that gun for bad things IS a problem.

I love guns. I love guns.
But that doesn't mitigate the fact that they are weapons. They are objects designed specifically to kill, and they have very little other use. I think that people should be allowed to use and own guns, that that is a right that should not be impinged.
But it should be controlled.
Regulations should be much thicker than they currently are, but there's no reason that a smart gun nut shouldn't be able to (safely) mess about with an M-16. There have to be tests, though. Required mental screenings. All kinds of things for handguns and assault rifles. The bureaucracy involved should be a deterrent for those who want to use them for what they're made for.

I'd argue that there is definite proof that guns exist,

Can you prove that he couldn't have just used poison or made a bomb? Unless you want to ban every bomb-making ingredient (and probably shut down the economy), it wouldn't have helped.

This guy had no criminal record. He would have passed any background check you threw at him and besides, he stole the guns anyway. What should we have done to keep guns out of his hands?

If there had been more gun control, he probably wouldn't have been able to get the guns because they would have found similar blocks along the way.

[EnigmaticHat]

I'd argue that there is definite proof that guns exist,

Can you prove that he couldn't have just used poison or made a bomb? Unless you want to ban every bomb-making ingredient (and probably shut down the economy), it wouldn't have helped.

This guy had no criminal record. He would have passed any background check you threw at him and besides, he stole the guns anyway. What should we have done to keep guns out of his hands?

Poison is restricted by making it difficult to apply stealthily; there's a reason food is always sold in sealed containers.  Bombs are restricted, as are bomb making materials, and I'm pretty sure any serious effort to research bomb making on the internet would land you some unwanted attention from the FBI.

[Sir Finkus]

I'd argue that there is definite proof that guns exist,

Can you prove that he couldn't have just used poison or made a bomb? Unless you want to ban every bomb-making ingredient (and probably shut down the economy), it wouldn't have helped.

This guy had no criminal record. He would have passed any background check you threw at him and besides, he stole the guns anyway. What should we have done to keep guns out of his hands?

That may be true, but that still doesn't legitimize Huckabee's statements at all. 

I'm done arguing with you.  If anything, you're hurting our position with wild accusations and strange conclusions.  Insulting people who hold opposing viewpoints isn't going to win anyone over, it just discredits you and your opinions, which is especially annoying because we seem have similar viewpoints on quite a bit.

[mcclay]

Urist_McGunner brought it up already, badly I might add, but didn't we try to control alochol a while ago? Didn't that end with it being banned and yet having its usage and avaibality rise to higher levels than before the ban? I would prefer we didn't start a gun probation and end up with Al Capone with a AK-47. I believe that gun laws should be tightned up reasonably but some people are getting way to mad about this. Beef up the laws a bit and put a few more police in the schools. It might prevent this from happening again.

[Sir Finkus]

*Can start by looking into fairly old, at this point, research into priming in regards to violence and work your way forward and around. It's not something we want in a classroom, especially for younger kids.

I'm genuinely curious, could you point me in the right direction to look into this?

Give a google for "priming violence sociology", sans quotes. Seems to be pulling up a bit of related material -- I'd have to dig out one of my textbooks to cite the specific study I'm recalling at you. Which... if you're interested, I could PM something to you sometime tomorrow. Too late to go digging through the car to find the book, heh.

I'll take a peak, thanks.

[misko27]

Urist_McGunner brought it up already, badly I might add, but didn't we try to control alochol a while ago? Didn't that end with it being banned and yet having its usage and avaibality rise to higher levels than before the ban? I would prefer we didn't start a gun probation and end up with Al Capone with a AK-47. I believe that gun laws should be tightned up reasonably but some people are getting way to mad about this. Beef up the laws a bit and put a few more police in the schools. It might prevent this from happening again.

Uh, mcclay? AK-47 are already legal. Modern-day al-Capone would have to have a Military Machine gun to be more dangerous.
 
Besides, the situation is different. This isn't something you can just ferment in your backyard. This is complex machinery. Home-made versions suck.

[mcclay]

Urist_McGunner brought it up already, badly I might add, but didn't we try to control alochol a while ago? Didn't that end with it being banned and yet having its usage and avaibality rise to higher levels than before the ban? I would prefer we didn't start a gun probation and end up with Al Capone with a AK-47. I believe that gun laws should be tightned up reasonably but some people are getting way to mad about this. Beef up the laws a bit and put a few more police in the schools. It might prevent this from happening again.

Uh, mcclay? AK-47 are already legal. Modern-day al-Capone would have to have a Military Machine gun to be more dangerous.
 
Besides, the situation is different. This isn't something you can just ferment in your backyard. This is complex machinery. Home-made versions suck.

It was the first assult rifle that came to mind. Most people didn't ferment the stuff in their backyard. They went and bought it at a speakeasy or some other illict place. If gun laws did go to the extreme I described people could still get weapons off a black market or some other such thing. They only comparsion you can make with Moonshiners is that there are people who can make homemade guns well, and even if you can't you can invoke qunaity over quailty. And after your first few pieces of shit you will start getting better at making guns, pratice makes perfect.

[Sir Finkus]

Urist_McGunner brought it up already, badly I might add, but didn't we try to control alochol a while ago? Didn't that end with it being banned and yet having its usage and avaibality rise to higher levels than before the ban? I would prefer we didn't start a gun probation and end up with Al Capone with a AK-47. I believe that gun laws should be tightned up reasonably but some people are getting way to mad about this. Beef up the laws a bit and put a few more police in the schools. It might prevent this from happening again.

Uh, mcclay? AK-47 are already legal. Modern-day al-Capone would have to have a Military Machine gun to be more dangerous.
 
Besides, the situation is different. This isn't something you can just ferment in your backyard. This is complex machinery. Home-made versions suck.

AK-47s are NOT legal except in certain circumstances.  Basically, you have to have tens of thousands of dollars and submit to an extensive background check.  There are things that look like AK-47s, but you aren't getting anything fully automatic unless it was made before 1986.  "Military machine guns" aren't something the average Joe is going to own depending on you definition of the term.

Generally, if you want something that will fire more than one bullet with a pull of the trigger, you're going to be out a few thousand dollars and a FBI probing. 

There are many weapons made for the civilian market that look like their military counterparts, but they function differently.  You'd have to make illegal modifications to make the weapons function in the same manner.

I'm sure our BATF guy could enlighten you more on the subject if he wishes to do so.

I may be splitting hairs, but a lot of people seem to be under the assumption that fully automatic weapons are easy to get, when they really aren't.

"Assault weapon" bans are baffling to many gun owners because many of the things that make a weapon an "Assault weapon" are purely cosmetic.  2 firearms can be functionally identical, but one could be considered an assault weapon because it has a bayonet lug or a pistol grip.

[Criptfeind]

Urist_McGunner brought it up already, badly I might add, but didn't we try to control alochol a while ago? Didn't that end with it being banned and yet having its usage and avaibality rise to higher levels than before the ban? I would prefer we didn't start a gun probation and end up with Al Capone with a AK-47. I believe that gun laws should be tightned up reasonably but some people are getting way to mad about this. Beef up the laws a bit and put a few more police in the schools. It might prevent this from happening again.

Uh, mcclay? AK-47 are already legal. Modern-day al-Capone would have to have a Military Machine gun to be more dangerous.
 
Besides, the situation is different. This isn't something you can just ferment in your backyard. This is complex machinery. Home-made versions suck.

It was the first assult rifle that came to mind. Most people didn't ferment the stuff in their backyard. They went and bought it at a speakeasy or some other illict place. If gun laws did go to the extreme I described people could still get weapons off a black market or some other such thing. They only comparsion you can make with Moonshiners is that there are people who can make homemade guns well, and even if you can't you can invoke qunaity over quailty. And after your first few pieces of shit you will start getting better at making guns, pratice makes perfect.

I am pretty sure that generally speaking if you are a crazy person knocking together a illegal gun in your garage to go out and slaughter people with one is all you are going to make.

[Toady One]

I'd appreciate it if people exercised some self-control in this thread.  Saying you want a group murdered or accusing posters of politicizing dead children etc. are not useful ways of going about the conversation.

[Fayrik]

They only comparsion you can make with Moonshiners is that there are people who can make homemade guns well, and even if you can't you can invoke qunaity over quailty. And after your first few pieces of shit you will start getting better at making guns, pratice makes perfect.

And... Where exactly is the common nut job or criminal supposed to get the equipment to manufacture parts such as a DA/SA Trigger?
Sophisticated weaponry takes serious mechanical processing to create. You're not just going to be able to go out and buy Lego brand weapon parts.

...That is assuming that said person doesn't wind up blowing fingers off or shooting themselves in misfire accidents.

[Mechatronic]

Reasonable gun control is not like alcohol prohibition. It's more like car licensing and registration. The main ideas are to reduce the number of people who should not have guns having guns and track guns that have been used for a crime.

[scriver]

And once more, prohibition is a completely unfitting parable as nobody is arguing for a blanket ban of all guns.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd just like to put in my possibly incompetent two-cents by saying that Japan has 127,817,277 people, Britain has 62,641,000 people, Israel has 7,765,700 people, and the US blows these numbers away at 311,591,917 people (google "population of *nation*" for these numbers). These lower numbers of people will generally mean less people gathered in places like large cities, which would lower violence in general. The violence rate will be lower if you have less people, to put it in a short way. There's an impossibly large number of variables from every aspect of society to deal with when thinking about why violence like this happens.

Point of information, all three are highly industrialized countries with the majority of its peoples situated in its cities. There's a lot more factors than population density in crime.
Also a great deal of the world's gun black market comes from America D:<

Also in case it has not been posted before...