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[Hiiri]

Sorry too soon

Wuss. Good luck finding a day when people don't get shot.

[Detonate]

Ironic that the gun control crowd is the ones decrying huckabee for using this for political purposes.

There's a rather fine line between wanting to prevent this from happening again and claiming that removing God from schools creates mass shootings.

[Xantalos]

Ironic that the gun control crowd is the ones decrying huckabee for using this for political purposes.

There's a rather fine line between wanting to prevent this from happening again and claiming that removing God from schools creates mass shootings.

Wait, how is that line fine? I see very few correlations between those two things.

[Putnam]

Which is why the line is fine and not fuzzy.

[Xantalos]

Which is why the line is fine and not fuzzy.

...But wouldn't there be a thick line between wanting to prevent catastrophes and attributing them to divine vengance?
[/terminologyman]

[FearfulJesuit]

I hope this resparks the gun control debate, because hiding behind "people just need more guns" suddenly looks utterly callous. It's one thing to suggest that rational adults in malls and maybe, even, movie theaters should be armed.

But you can't seriously say that kindergarten teachers can be. There's simply no good way around this one.

[Sir Finkus]

I hope this resparks the gun control debate, because hiding behind "people just need more guns" suddenly looks utterly callous. It's one thing to suggest that rational adults in malls and maybe, even, movie theaters should be armed.

But you can't seriously say that kindergarten teachers can be. There's simply no good way around this one.

I'll seriously say this.  I don't think they should be forced to like Urist_McDrowner, but I do think that a kindergarten teacher that has met all the requirements for a concealed weapon permit should be able to have a firearm at a school.  If we're going to have firearms, it seems rather foolish to me to have gun free zones that only prevent people who carry guns legally from carrying guns.

[misko27]

And this is why there will never be a agreement on the subject. Totally, completely opposed views. Regardless of reality, sanity, permanetly, completely opposite.

[Frumple]

Caveat that to the requirements for a concealed carry actually being worth a shit, and we might be able to talk. I put exactly jack zero confidence in the states' concealed carry procedures, right now, at least in Florida. And considering the number of other states that accept a Florida carry permit... yeah. I've been through what you've got to do to get a permit and... no. If you're going to put a weapon in the hands of a school teacher you need a hell of a lot more than that.

[Sir Finkus]

Caveat that to the requirements for a concealed carry actually being worth a shit, and we might be able to talk. I put exactly jack zero confidence in the states' concealed carry procedures, right now, at least in Florida. And considering the number of other states that accept a Florida carry permit... yeah. I've been through what you've got to do to get a permit and... no. If you're going to put a weapon in the hands of a school teacher you need a hell of a lot more than that.

My main point is that people who want to shoot up a school clearly don't really care whether or not there are any special restrictions on carrying firearms in a certain area.   "Gun free" zones sound great in theory, but in practice it's really only a sign for crazy people to ignore.  It really only addresses the corner case of someone being caught with a firearm in a gun free zone before committing some terrible crime with aforementioned firearm.  Given the special circumstances of a school, I think it would be reasonable to require a bit more qualification for a teacher that wanted to carry a firearm.

Airports and similar places are different of course, as we actually enforce the gun free zones with metal detectors and such.  If all schools had checkpoints like that it'd be a different argument.

[fqllve]

Personally the idea of a kindergarten teacher carrying a firearm in school completely sets my brain into irrational mode. Logically I know there is no real difference between a security guard carrying a firearm and a teacher carrying one, or a high school teacher carrying and a kindergarten teacher carrying, but somewhere along the way my reason grinds to a halt and somebody sets off the "Holy shit that is the worst idea I've ever heard" alarm.

It's not even close to the worst idea I've ever heard, but I think that's the reason it likely won't happen.

[Sir Finkus]

Personally the idea of a kindergarten teacher carrying a firearm in school completely sets my brain into irrational mode. Logically I know there is no real difference between a security guard carrying a firearm and a teacher carrying one, or a high school teacher carrying and a kindergarten teacher carrying, but somewhere along the way my reason grinds to a halt and somebody sets off the "Holy shit that is the worst idea I've ever heard" alarm.

It's not even close to the worst idea I've ever heard, but I think that's the reason it likely won't happen.

I can understand that.  That's why I suggested the posting of a police officer or two at each school.  It'd be valuable in many ways besides the protection aspect.

Besides, if you think about it, we already give our teachers an incredible amount of trust, I don't think carrying is such a huge stretch.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I say just post police to schools.

You don't let 1,000 people into a stadium without atleast one security guard, do you? Hell, I see Macy's with better on-site protection than schools. We need to stop living in the fantasy world where people [and students] don't attack schools and be prepared accordingly.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Ironic that the gun control crowd is the ones decrying huckabee for using this for political purposes.

God may or may not exist. We know a gun was used to kill these kids.

Gun control may or may not help. I'm pretty sure they've got equal probability and are backed up by equal evidence.

Claim what you want, the fact is, gun control vultures swept in on this before those tiny bodies were even cold. But never let a crisis go to waste, am I right?

Check out the Brady Campaign twitter feed. First mention of the shooting? Not the kids. Not the tragedy. Gun control. THE FIRST THING. Dan Gross' surname suits him quite well. A pile of kids bodies is the best soapbox.

https://twitter.com/bradybuzz

[Frumple]

Personally the idea of a kindergarten teacher carrying a firearm in school completely sets my brain into irrational mode. Logically I know there is no real difference between a security guard carrying a firearm and a teacher carrying one, or a high school teacher carrying and a kindergarten teacher carrying, but somewhere along the way my reason grinds to a halt and somebody sets off the "Holy shit that is the worst idea I've ever heard" alarm.

It's not even close to the worst idea I've ever heard, but I think that's the reason it likely won't happen.

Oh, it's horrible for all sorts of reasons (plenty of them psychological -- there's issues with bringing violence into a classroom, and culturally firearms represent violence.*), don't mistake that, but it's something I could at least contemplate discussion about if the American system wasn't worth jack-all for making sure our gun owners are actually capable individuals -- and I'm saying that as an American gun owner, who's cleared the reqs for a concealed carry permit. Whatever's keeping America's firearm related injuries (violent or otherwise) as low as they are damn sure isn't the formal aspects related to them. Though it does vary a bit by area, from what I understand, the fact that there's areas like the one I'm in pretty much undermine any better implemented systems.

*Can start by looking into fairly old, at this point, research into priming in regards to violence and work your way forward and around. It's not something we want in a classroom, especially for younger kids.

I say just post police to schools.

You don't let 1,000 people into a stadium without atleast one security guard, do you? Hell, I see Macy's with better on-site protection than schools. We need to stop living in the fantasy world where people [and students] don't attack schools and be prepared accordingly.

Maybe. Part of me really wishes we could figure out a way of preparing accordingly that didn't make our schools look even more like prisons, y'know? A lot of schools do have attendant or attached police officers, though, from what I've seen. No doubt varies by area,, o'course.