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[Max White]

The point is, if there is no statistical significance, there's no statistical significance. That example proves my point. The color yellow is statistically insignificant.

Exactly... It is irrelevant. The high gun ownership rate isn't what is lowering shooting rates, it is something else. High gun ownership = yellow.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Moving the goalposts. That's going to become a no true scotsman. If I produce a country, you'll say it isn't being enforced enough simply because it has more homicides.

Over a half of the guns in Brazil are illegal. That's 9 million illegal guns in circulation in Brazil. That's not an effect enforcement of gun-control in any sense of the word.

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

So are you being willfully dense or actually dense re: Brazil's wealth of narcotics related violence and poverty compared to the US?

We have more poverty and narcotics related violence than Europe, didn't stop anyone from making comparisons there.

The US is also wealthier and less corrupt than Brazil. The influence of drug/narcotics in both countries is completely different.

[Urist_McDrowner]

The point is, if there is no statistical significance, there's no statistical significance. That example proves my point. The color yellow is statistically insignificant.

Exactly... It is irrelevant. The high gun ownership rate isn't what is lowering shooting rates, it is something else. High gun ownership = yellow.

So if guns don't harm or hurt (yellow), why ban them? This is a free society, so you have to come up with a reason TO ban something. Hence, why we don't ban yellow.

[Sir Finkus]

X: The color yellow is present in all countries in the world. Honduras has a homicide rate of 91.6. Clearly the color yellow causes murder.
Y: but what about Monaco, with no homicides? That has yellow
X: That also applies to Honduras. Clearly yellow causes murder.

Did... Did you just discredit your own argument with a hypothetical while trying to discredit another argument?
Are you Christopher Monckton?

The point is, if there is no statistical significance, there's no statistical significance. That example proves my point. The color yellow is statistically insignificant.

But you used that to try refute my argument that you can't make that correlation, so I don't really understand what point you're trying to make.

Frankly, I don't think you can really make meaningful correlations between gun ownership rates and violence either way.  The different cultures and political situations in the countries involved make these kinds of things really hard to nail down.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Moving the goalposts. That's going to become a no true scotsman. If I produce a country, you'll say it isn't being enforced enough simply because it has more homicides.

Over a half of the guns in Brazil are illegal. That's 9 million illegal guns in circulation in Brazil. That's not an effect enforcement of gun-control in any sense of the word.

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

So are you being willfully dense or actually dense re: Brazil's wealth of narcotics related violence and poverty compared to the US?

We have more poverty and narcotics related violence than Europe, didn't stop anyone from making comparisons there.

The US is also wealthier and less corrupt than Brazil. The influence of drug/narcotics in both countries is completely different.

What about Russia? Ukraine?

What prevents people from getting illegal guns here? They can already get complicated illegal drugs like heroin.

[Urist_McDrowner]

X: The color yellow is present in all countries in the world. Honduras has a homicide rate of 91.6. Clearly the color yellow causes murder.
Y: but what about Monaco, with no homicides? That has yellow
X: That also applies to Honduras. Clearly yellow causes murder.

Did... Did you just discredit your own argument with a hypothetical while trying to discredit another argument?
Are you Christopher Monckton?

The point is, if there is no statistical significance, there's no statistical significance. That example proves my point. The color yellow is statistically insignificant.

But you used that to try refute my argument that you can't make that correlation, so I don't really understand what point you're trying to make.

Frankly, I don't think you can really make meaningful correlations between gun ownership rates and violence either way.  The different cultures and political situations in the countries involved make these kinds of things really hard to nail down.

So there's no reason to ban guns.

[Max White]

So if guns don't harm or hurt (yellow), why ban them? This is a free society, so you have to come up with a reason TO ban something. Hence, why we don't ban yellow.

I didn't say they don't harm, I just said that they didn't help.
Unmanaged gun ownership is the problem, not levels of gun ownership. Just lowering the number of guns in the world doesn't help nearly as much as putting in tougher restrictions to getting them.

So there's no reason to ban guns.

Why do you think that gun control = banning guns?

[Urist_McDrowner]

So if guns don't harm or hurt (yellow), why ban them? This is a free society, so you have to come up with a reason TO ban something. Hence, why we don't ban yellow.

I didn't say they don't harm, I just said that they didn't help.
Unmanaged gun ownership is the problem, not levels of gun ownership. Just lowering the number of guns in the world doesn't help nearly as much as putting in tougher restrictions to getting them.

So there's no reason to ban guns.

Why do you think that con control = banning guns?

Didn't we just go over the color yellow example? A person could steal a gun in Switzerland, as the perp did, just as easily as they can here.

[Sir Finkus]

X: The color yellow is present in all countries in the world. Honduras has a homicide rate of 91.6. Clearly the color yellow causes murder.
Y: but what about Monaco, with no homicides? That has yellow
X: That also applies to Honduras. Clearly yellow causes murder.

Did... Did you just discredit your own argument with a hypothetical while trying to discredit another argument?
Are you Christopher Monckton?

The point is, if there is no statistical significance, there's no statistical significance. That example proves my point. The color yellow is statistically insignificant.

But you used that to try refute my argument that you can't make that correlation, so I don't really understand what point you're trying to make.

Frankly, I don't think you can really make meaningful correlations between gun ownership rates and violence either way.  The different cultures and political situations in the countries involved make these kinds of things really hard to nail down.

So there's no reason to ban guns.

I didn't say there was, I was just pointing out the holes in your logic and strange conclusions you seem to draw based on insufficient data.

For the record, I'm actually on your side, I just hate to see the position argued so badly.

[Max White]

Didn't we just go over the color yellow example? A person could steal a gun in Switzerland, as the perp did, just as easily as they can here.

Could they? Shit, I didn't think of that! Your right! We better ban guns to make sure that doesn't happen! Thank god you were her to point that out.

[Leafsnail]

So if guns don't harm or hurt (yellow)

This is literally the worst metaphor I have ever seen.

[PanH]

So if guns don't harm or hurt (yellow)

This is literally the worst metaphor I have ever seen.

I mean, it's not like guns ever hurt anyone. No ?

[Urist_McDrowner]

Didn't we just go over the color yellow example? A person could steal a gun in Switzerland, as the perp did, just as easily as they can here.

Could they? Shit, I didn't think of that! Your right! We better ban guns to make sure that doesn't happen! Thank god you were her to point that out.

And yet, where people "CAN'T" steal guns, there are more homicides. Looking at you, UK/entire rest of Europe. 

[Darvi]

For the record, yellow does hurt.

[sneakey pete]

So... did the governor of the state that this happened in just get up in a church and say how great it is to be Christian, basically?