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[USEC_OFFICER]

There is private ownership. And it requires a background check and a permit to get a handgun in Switzerland (like NY, how's their crime rate anyway? Oh, that's right). So why would anyone try and pull something in Switzerland, when they can just hop over to France?

Because Switzerland isn't part of the EU and therefore hopping the border to commit crimes is a stupid idea.

[Urist_McDrowner]

It does show that gun control is irrelevant. Lots of countries with gun control have more gun crime than the Swiss (all of Europe), and a few more than the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control compared to USA.

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

[Urist_McDrowner]

There is private ownership. And it requires a background check and a permit to get a handgun in Switzerland (like NY, how's their crime rate anyway? Oh, that's right). So why would anyone try and pull something in Switzerland, when they can just hop over to France?

Because Switzerland isn't part of the EU and therefore hopping the border to commit crimes is a stupid idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

[PanH]

It does show that gun control is irrelevant. Lots of countries with gun control have more gun crime than the Swiss (all of Europe), and a few more than the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control compared to USA.

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control being enforced, compared to USA.

[Bdthemag]

Funny how the public is getting riled up about this, considering everyone will forget about it and generally not care until the next major shooting happens.

[Urist_McDrowner]

The guy who did this didn't own a gun lawfully. He stole one and shot his mother. What's to prevent someone from stealing a Swiss gun? Smuggle some ammo out of a range, steal a gun, shoot.

My point is, guns don't seem to make ANY difference. And arming the law abiding citizenry, as Switzerland did, is not hurting them at all.

And giving them loads and loads of training and having target shooting as almost a national sport there.

Besides, just because they have gun proliferation and low crime doesn't mean that it's the guns lowering crime rates just like the opposite isn't true in the US. Switzerland has less crime in general (specifically drug crime).

It does show that gun control is irrelevant. Lots of countries with gun control have more gun crime than the Swiss (all of Europe), and a few more than the US.

It really doesn't show anything.  Maybe it's conscription that causes the lower crime rates, maybe it's the beautiful scenery.  This also applies to the opposite argument about violence in America being caused by the liberal firearm laws.

That's absurd.

X: The color yellow is present in all countries in the world. Honduras has a homicide rate of 91.6. Clearly the color yellow causes murder.
Y: but what about Monaco, with no homicides? That has yellow
X: That also applies to Honduras. Clearly yellow causes murder.

[Neonivek]

Funny how the public is getting riled up about this, considering everyone will forget about it and generally not care until the next major shooting happens.

People as a whole have not only a self-centered memory but a very short term memory.

[Urist_McDrowner]

It does show that gun control is irrelevant. Lots of countries with gun control have more gun crime than the Swiss (all of Europe), and a few more than the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control compared to USA.

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control being enforced, compared to USA.

Moving the goalposts. That's going to become a no true scotsman. If I produce a country, you'll say it isn't being enforced enough simply because it has more homicides.

[PanH]

It does show that gun control is irrelevant. Lots of countries with gun control have more gun crime than the Swiss (all of Europe), and a few more than the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control compared to USA.

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

I'd like to see your numbers of mass shooting in countries with gun control being enforced, compared to USA.

Moving the goalposts. That's going to become a no true scotsman. If I produce a country, you'll say it isn't being enforced enough simply because it has more homicides.

Mass shooting, not homicide.

[Leafsnail]

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

So are you being willfully dense or actually dense re: Brazil's wealth of narcotics related violence and poverty compared to the US?

[Max White]

X: The color yellow is present in all countries in the world. Honduras has a homicide rate of 91.6. Clearly the color yellow causes murder.
Y: but what about Monaco, with no homicides? That has yellow
X: That also applies to Honduras. Clearly yellow causes murder.

Did... Did you just discredit your own argument with a hypothetical while trying to discredit another argument?
Are you Christopher Monckton?

[Urist_McDrowner]

Brazil. Homicide rate is 21.0 per 100,000 compared to 4.2 in the US.

So are you being willfully dense or actually dense re: Brazil's wealth of narcotics related violence and poverty compared to the US?

We have more poverty and narcotics related violence than Europe, didn't stop anyone from making comparisons there.

[fqllve]

It does show that gun control is irrelevant. Lots of countries with gun control have more gun crime than the Swiss (all of Europe), and a few more than the US.

Except I'd argue that militia training is gun control. I'd bet the level of education, safety precautions, and government oversight are large parts of why gun crime is so rare there. Also, Switzerland has less crime in general than most European countries. Does gun regulation have significant impact on crime rates? Almost certainly not. In lieu of a high crime rate should we be exploring options that in concert might help? Yes.

Holy shit 17 posts

[Pnx]

This is a terrible tragedy. All I can say about it on that level is that I have no concept of what these parents must be going through right now, it's just unthinkable. I'm reminded of the Dunblane primary school massacre in mid 90s that got handguns banned in all forms in the UK, so I don't think the 2nd amendment is going to emerge from this unscathed. I'll offer no comment on it, seeing as it's up to the American people to decide what's best for their country.

I will, however, put this to you. Obama sheds tears today for the children lost. Understandably so, if I was in his position I would. But I ask you this: has Obama shed any tears for the 160+ children killed in US drone attacks in Pakistan since 2006, the majority of whom under his presidency? One wonders.

Yeah... err no.

This kind of thing happens a lot in the US, I mean there's been a couple of these kinds of shootings in the past year alone hasn't there? Also frankly most Americans don't seem to give a shit about all the innocent people that die from US drone strikes. In fact most of them aren't even aware of the war in Afghanistan in anything but a vague sense. The media never really reports on it, and most people don't really know much about it. The war Afghanistan isn't really in the public consciousness. Nor is the Mexican drug war, or the occupy protests across the country, or a lot of other issues that the US is involved with. People seem to much prefer to get worked up about homosexuality, abortion, and giving tax cuts than any of these kind of issues.

[Urist_McDrowner]

X: The color yellow is present in all countries in the world. Honduras has a homicide rate of 91.6. Clearly the color yellow causes murder.
Y: but what about Monaco, with no homicides? That has yellow
X: That also applies to Honduras. Clearly yellow causes murder.

Did... Did you just discredit your own argument with a hypothetical while trying to discredit another argument?
Are you Christopher Monckton?

The point is, if there is no statistical significance, there's no statistical significance. That example proves my point. The color yellow is statistically insignificant.