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Author Topic: The Hobbit  (Read 55659 times)

Digital Hellhound

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #525 on: January 06, 2014, 12:53:28 pm »

Does Smaug seem like someone worried about their own safety, anyway? He thinks (and with good reason) that he's pretty much invincible. Armoring yourself is for the weak.
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Xantalos

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #526 on: January 06, 2014, 12:55:19 pm »

MY SCALES LIKE TENFOLD SHIELDS and all.
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Zrk2

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #527 on: January 06, 2014, 01:29:07 pm »

What I really don't get though is why they'd spoil the fact that he has a weak spot on his belly before the dwarves even get close to the mountain? For anyone not familiar to the story it makes it painfully clear waaay too early how he'll be defeated. That and changing his awesome armor-bling, although I guess they might've had issues making it look good, what do I know :P

One minor thing about that weak spot that gets to me: wouldn't Smaug at least try to put something there?  With that much stuff on his trove, you would think he would have found something in all the years he was there.
It's implied he didn't notice.

Also, massive ego.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #528 on: January 06, 2014, 01:42:26 pm »

In the book he didn't notice and/or think it through...
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #529 on: January 06, 2014, 01:46:56 pm »

In the book he didn't notice and/or think it through...

Though in the book, he was missing a piece of treasure instead of a scale.
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Helgoland

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #530 on: January 06, 2014, 07:26:13 pm »

Wasn't his armor, in fact, the pieces of treasure that had become embedded in his skin? The name Smaug the Golden might come from there...
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #531 on: January 06, 2014, 10:00:08 pm »

Wasn't his armor, in fact, the pieces of treasure that had become embedded in his skin? The name Smaug the Golden might come from there...
Yep. Would have been awesome to see.

In the book he didn't notice and/or think it through...

Though in the book, he was missing a piece of treasure instead of a scale.
Yep.

What I really don't get though is why they'd spoil the fact that he has a weak spot on his belly before the dwarves even get close to the mountain? For anyone not familiar to the story it makes it painfully clear waaay too early how he'll be defeated. That and changing his awesome armor-bling, although I guess they might've had issues making it look good, what do I know :P

One minor thing about that weak spot that gets to me: wouldn't Smaug at least try to put something there?  With that much stuff on his trove, you would think he would have found something in all the years he was there.
It's implied he didn't notice.
Yep.

Also in the book, as I recall, Bilbo sneaks in and steals a cup. Smaug notices and starts talking with Bilbo as he slowly escapes. Bilbo flees dragonfire as he runs back up the tunnel and shows the Dwarves the cup. They clap him on the back - good hobbit! But he doesn't tell them he found the gem, which he pocketed. He mentions the dragon's weak point, overheard by a humble thrush.

Then Smaug goes crazy and goes outside, starts bashing the mountain. The terrified dwarves shut the secret door, knowing it probably means they're sealed in, but otherwise the dragon would find the opening and broil them all alive. Smaug gets tired and angry and goes off to destroy Lake-Town.

Smaug basically wrecks Lake-Town, but Bard who is leading the defense hears about the weak point from a thrush which alights on his shoulder. So he fires a magic arrow and kills Smaug. 

Later when they're getting hungry and thirsty and there's no sound of the dragon (because he's been killed) the dwarves go down and find the dragon gone. They loot the place, taking armor, and fortify the entrance.

The Men of Lake-Town and the Mirkwood Elves come up and say "Hey man let's have a share of that sweet loot which is partly our ancestors' by the way and also we did kill the whole dragon after you riled him up." The dwarves basically shit on them verbally and they depart, and besiege the mountain.

All that time the dwarves are searching the hoard for the Arkenstone, which Bilbo had burgled previously.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #532 on: January 06, 2014, 10:04:04 pm »

You guys, you can find the book at Half Price Books or pretty much any used bookseller. You can sometimes get them in a bargain bin for $1 but I bet the stores are all selling them in the normal stacks for $3 or so because of the interest generated by the movies.

It's an easy, enjoyable read. If you're a really serious reader it's a solid afternoon, otherwise a week here and there. Cute and lighthearted. Great for kids' bedtime story too.
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Remalle

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #533 on: January 07, 2014, 12:36:34 am »

Wasn't his armor, in fact, the pieces of treasure that had become embedded in his skin? The name Smaug the Golden might come from there...
Yes, and his weak spot was simply a place where the treasure hadn't embedded itself in his belly.  There was no legend about a black arrow knocking a scale loose; Bilbo was the only one who knew about it, a bird overheard him telling the dwarves and told Bard, who shot and killed Smaug with a regular arrow.
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Bauglir

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #534 on: January 07, 2014, 12:39:24 am »

Hang on, I'm pretty sure Bard actually did have a black arrow that he used for the shot, an arrow which he had always recovered and which was particularly valuable to him for its certain accuracy.
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WillowLuman

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #535 on: January 07, 2014, 12:39:40 am »

Wasn't his armor, in fact, the pieces of treasure that had become embedded in his skin? The name Smaug the Golden might come from there...
Yes, and his weak spot was simply a place where the treasure hadn't embedded itself in his belly.  There was no legend about a black arrow knocking a scale loose; Bilbo was the only one who knew about it, a bird overheard him telling the dwarves and told Bard, who shot and killed Smaug with a regular arrow.

Well, his sentimental heirloom arrow anyways. Aside from that it was regular though.
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Xantalos

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #536 on: January 07, 2014, 01:15:01 am »

I think the black arrow was as regular as This guy is.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #537 on: January 07, 2014, 03:43:44 pm »

Tolkien understated a lot of the magic, and I suspect he intended a lot of stuff to be mildly magical without ever stating it. And the nature of magic is questionable, as when he talks about the everyday sort of magic of Hobbits hiding well. I always figured the dwarves' mail coats and helmets were all magical in addition to being made of mithril. And that the Black Arrow was magic too.

The things that were overtly magical, like Bilbo's dagger which glowed, and the legendary items like the two swords they picked out of the troll cave, were just the more powerful ones.

Part of it may be that a magic axe may be difficult to tell from a non-magical axe that was made out of a special material or with a special process. And a non-Wizard can make things of minor magic like the Dwarves and Elves could. So where is the break between a Dwarf working at a forge making a fine axe using secret processes and materials, and instilling it with magic? Especially when Tolkien might consider everything the Dwarf is doing to be a kind of magic.

(Side note: when you look around at the world everything seems pretty magical. Seeds, the Sun, eating and drinking, rust.)

Another part is that few can detect magic, so if some woodsman inherits an axe from his father, who knows whether it's magical or just a nicely engraved and well-made axe?

A third part is that because the world is post-apocalyptic, and ruins abound, and wonderful things exist that were made long ago, and war and tragedy spread these things about, it's not unlikely that the woodsman could come across a magical axe. He uses it here and there, notes that it's more effective and needs little sharpening. Eventually he just uses that instead of normal axes. He's going to treat it as a magical axe regardless of whether it really is or not.
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Andrew425

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #538 on: January 07, 2014, 10:22:06 pm »

Was I the only one thinking that if Bilbo had gotten himself fried during that encounter that Boromir would still be alive?

Smaug was *so* close to saving the world.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #539 on: January 07, 2014, 11:16:54 pm »

Was I the only one thinking that if Bilbo had gotten himself fried during that encounter that Boromir would still be alive?

Smaug was *so* close to saving the world.
Smaug wouldn't have saved the world. If he got his claws on The Ring, there are really only three outcomes:

-He doesn't realize what it really is: This is very bad, as it means Sauron will soon have a mature dragon with unfathomable wealth at his command. "Fortunately", this is unlikely, as Smaug is in the kind of power bracket where at least identifying a Ring of Power is doable (he may have already done so with one of the Dwarf Rings).

-He realizes what it is and shuns it: This is the best outcome, as it means The Ring will sit forgotten in Smaug's horde for a long time to come, assuming he is able to defend against it's influence (he is so greedy as to make this nigh-impossible) and doesn't die (also unlikely, he's pretty much fated to die).

-He realizes what it is and unlocks its true power: What the fuck have you done, Smaug is now a living god. The world trembles at his power, and even what miniscule redeeming qualities Sauron had are not present in Smaug. The world bows before its new master, and in time darkness consumes all.


Anyway, as for re:Tolkien and Magic, a large amount of "magic" is also synonymous with "fate". Bard made his impossible shot because it was fated to occur, and never lost the arrow before then because it had not served its true purpose.
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