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Author Topic: The Hobbit  (Read 55476 times)

Rose

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #225 on: January 10, 2013, 11:46:13 am »

Pretty much. In the original hobbit release, the ring was given freely by gullum, as a reward for winning the riddle contest.
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Sheb

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #226 on: January 10, 2013, 11:59:21 am »

What original release? Was there several edition of the books, with retcon like that?
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Rose

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #227 on: January 10, 2013, 12:42:11 pm »

Yes, the second printing, and all subsequent printings, had the retcon in it.

Here is a side-by-side comparison.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 12:58:43 pm by Japa »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #228 on: January 10, 2013, 01:13:42 pm »

Really, Balrog is Kool-Aid Man. Busts through walls and shouts an exclamation of joy? The dots are right there, you just need to connect them.
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Darvi

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #229 on: January 10, 2013, 01:33:27 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Vattic

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #230 on: January 11, 2013, 08:34:04 am »

Saw this last weekend and enjoyed it overall, some of the shifts in tone and action sequences dampened my immersion some, though.
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Fniff

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #231 on: January 13, 2013, 05:49:48 pm »

I originally didn't really like "medieval fantasy" cos I thought it was overused and getting dull. I liked the Hobbit (I didn't really get into LOTR) and the earlier Discworld, but I just thought the genre was overstretched. Then I saw Game of Thrones which was really interesting and cool.

Okay, so Tolkeinesque fantasy. Everyone has been ripping that off too much, obviously, and nothing can be done with the formula. However, I went to see the Hobbit and enjoyed it.

What do you want with me, fantasy!? I keep trying to narrow down your cliches into a single part of the genre and avoid that bit entirely! Okay, I'm going to say it's the idea of heroic fantasy where all problems are solved with really huge battles until another film/tv show proves me wrong.

Anyway, I liked the Hobbit. I'm not that engrossed in the setting of LOTR so I didn't notice the conflicts with canon people noted and I didn't see the LOTR films, so I didn't really have any problems with that kind of stuff. However, I'm not entirely sure I was into the goblin cave parts of the film.  I didn't imagine the goblins fortress as being a huge and expansive cavern, it always struck me as being tight corridors and darkness everywhere. I did like the Gollum bits. Those definitely fitted my idea of what Gollum's home looked like.

SalmonGod

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #232 on: January 13, 2013, 06:01:18 pm »

What do you want with me, fantasy!? I keep trying to narrow down your cliches into a single part of the genre and avoid that bit entirely! Okay, I'm going to say it's the idea of heroic fantasy where all problems are solved with really huge battles until another film/tv show proves me wrong.

It's a shame Tolkien has been stuck with this stereotype of heroic fantasy.  If you read the Silmarillion and look at the overall history of middle-earth, it turns out that all these heroes and really huge battles actually make everything worse.  Turin is arguably the most heroic character in Tolkien's works, and defeats the most powerful creature Morgoth ever created, yet he brings ruin everywhere he goes.
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Fniff

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #233 on: January 13, 2013, 06:04:38 pm »

What do you want with me, fantasy!? I keep trying to narrow down your cliches into a single part of the genre and avoid that bit entirely! Okay, I'm going to say it's the idea of heroic fantasy where all problems are solved with really huge battles until another film/tv show proves me wrong.

It's a shame Tolkien has been stuck with this stereotype of heroic fantasy.  If you read the Silmarillion and look at the overall history of middle-earth, it turns out that all these heroes and really huge battles actually make everything worse.  Turin is arguably the most heroic character in Tolkien's works, and defeats the most powerful creature Morgoth ever created, yet he brings ruin everywhere he goes.

Actually, I do think heroic fantasy and Tolkienesque fantasy are different. Heroic fantasy is what a lot of western RPGs and a few fantasy books fall under: kill the evil dark lord. Tolkien always seemed to me like a good author who had one too many imitators.

SalmonGod

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #234 on: January 13, 2013, 06:23:15 pm »

Yeah, it's the imitators that got him stuck with that stereotype.
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As the end will come so soon
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

TheKaspa

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #235 on: January 14, 2013, 02:34:38 am »

Well, quite all stories have the same plot... sometimes the evil lord is not easy to spot but it is an evil lord all the same.
007 films have this plot.
Thrillers have this plot.
Comedies have this plot (in this case the evil lord is not so evil and usually it is killed only in a metaphorical way)
And so on
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WillowLuman

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #236 on: January 17, 2013, 03:49:05 am »

Damn, how did I miss this thread?

Saw this film twice, once on opening night and another to see what this newfangled HDHFR thingamabob is all about.

I thought it was great, only 4 problems:

-The stone giants. These were like the damn river of skulls scene in ROTK. Why not just have big blokes hucking rocks at each other? If these godlike behemoths exist, where were they in the War of the Ring? They could have punted those puny oliphaunts! Stepped right over the black gate!

-Azog. Yeah, I can see how a recurring antagonist would be necessary, but it might have been better to have his son Bolg fill the role (as he does to a lesser extent in the book) and have a "you killed my father!" kind of motive.

-Gwaihir. If Gwaihir deems you worthy to grant the boon of Deus from your Machina, you will give him your respect and thanks. They better open the next film with him having a speaking part and maybe Gandalf explaining that they go way back. And the dwarves must forge him a crown in the end.

-Dwarves could have had a little less burping, geez.

Other than that? Amazing, even the 2nd time. Someone mentioned Martin Freeman as Watson or something, never seen that, but you're missing the real brilliance of this casting choice: Bilbo is played not by Watson, but by Arthur Dent.

I also find that the extended length left time for the slower-paced, character building scenes (at least in the first half). Strangely, the HFR 3D enhanced these quite a bit more than the action scenes. I think probably the most developed characters are Bilbo, Thorin, Balin, and Gandalf, who are arguably the most important characters in the book (maybe not Balin so much). I especially like that they had Bilbo tricking the trolls into arguing until morning, beginning to show his merit earlier rather than later.

I'd agree with Bauglir's assessment of the Dwarves, and I think the subtlety is intentional: if you look carefully, you see only maybe 5 of the dwarves doing much the badass fighting, most of them just running and dodging. Bombur comes to mind, as does Nori with his all-knitted clothes and whoever it was with the slingshot. They're all armed with something, sure, but anyone in their right mind would be when traveling in places like that.

Personally, I think that the Great Goblin was the most awesomely hamtastic performance I've seen all year. He was both eloquent and nasty, and the frankness of his last words... just awesome. Also, the Great Goiter. Oh, and is it just me, or was there a hole in his throne seat?
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alway

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #237 on: January 17, 2013, 06:07:51 am »

-The stone giants. These were like the damn river of skulls scene in ROTK. Why not just have big blokes hucking rocks at each other? If these godlike behemoths exist, where were they in the War of the Ring? They could have punted those puny oliphaunts! Stepped right over the black gate!
I suspect they didn't give a crap about the war of the ring. Or just about any other events. It's like the ents; they only cared after their forests were clear-cut. And the stone giants seem to be several levels of 'no fucks given' above the ents. I mean, why would they care about the stupid little politics of far off creatures which compared to themselves are the size of ants. Unless someone started mountaintop strip-mining the entire range of the Misty Mountains, they probably won't care what you do.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:09:26 am by alway »
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ed boy

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #238 on: January 17, 2013, 07:05:40 am »

-The stone giants. These were like the damn river of skulls scene in ROTK. Why not just have big blokes hucking rocks at each other? If these godlike behemoths exist, where were they in the War of the Ring? They could have punted those puny oliphaunts! Stepped right over the black gate!
I suspect they didn't give a crap about the war of the ring. Or just about any other events. It's like the ents; they only cared after their forests were clear-cut. And the stone giants seem to be several levels of 'no fucks given' above the ents. I mean, why would they care about the stupid little politics of far off creatures which compared to themselves are the size of ants. Unless someone started mountaintop strip-mining the entire range of the Misty Mountains, they probably won't care what you do.
It's also stated that the war of the ring happens in lots of places that the book doesn't follow. For example, it was stated that Dale was catured by Sauron, and Erebor was assulted (with Dain being killed).
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WillowLuman

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #239 on: January 17, 2013, 09:32:23 am »

Still, in the movie they're more than a little ridiculous and over the top.
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