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Author Topic: The Hobbit  (Read 55751 times)

Sheb

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #120 on: December 24, 2012, 10:36:03 am »

No, they were just being roasted by goblins.
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MrWillsauce

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #121 on: December 24, 2012, 10:38:18 am »

But Thorin didn't abandon his tree to go be stupid in the book, which is what made the situation tense enough for the party not to thank the eagles. Any way, you're right; they should have at least talked to the eagles.
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Sheb

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #122 on: December 24, 2012, 10:39:18 am »

Don't they do that AFTER being saved in the book?
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Heron TSG

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #123 on: December 24, 2012, 11:47:33 am »

I thought so, I'll dig up my copy and find out. But yes, Gwaihir the Windlord is king of deus ex machina. Saving hobbits and dwarves from burning trees, saving wizards from towers, saving hobbits from burning rock... hell, his ancestor Thorondor saved Fingolfin's body from freaking Morgoth. It's what they do.
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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #124 on: December 24, 2012, 11:57:10 am »

Sig worthy.
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #125 on: December 24, 2012, 12:15:36 pm »

hell, his ancestor Thorondor saved Fingolfin's body from freaking Morgoth. It's what they do.

Took him by surprise by swooping down out of the sky and clawing at his eyes, stunning and blinding him long enough to carry the body away.  For being so brief and sparsely described, Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth still manages to be one of the most exciting moments in Tolkien's work.  I'm sure Blind Guardian has a lot to do with that, since this song plays in my head every time I think about it.  It's a shame they didn't include another verse to show how much of a fight Fingolfin put up, leaving Morgoth with a permanent limp.  The significance of that, for those who don't know the Silmarillion, is Morgoth was a Valar, which is basically a god of the highest order and participant in the creation of the world.  Sauron, for all the fuss over him in LotR, was merely Morgoth's lieutenant.  Fingolfin was just an elf.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 12:19:54 pm by SalmonGod »
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Heron TSG

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #126 on: December 24, 2012, 12:20:20 pm »

Yeah, it really is my favorite part of the Silmarillion, bar none. And one of the main reasons I'd like to see the book in film form. Beren and Luthien are cool and all, but they didn't ride to certain death just to s(p/m)ite the ultimate evil.

this song
Is freakin' great. I really need to listen to the rest of their 'Middle-Earth' album. They just have so much gorram music, I haven't gotten around to it yet.  :P
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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
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woose1

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #127 on: December 24, 2012, 12:44:54 pm »

You guys are nerds. I liked the Hobbit. I also like the Azog dude as a stand-in for talking wolves. I even liked Radagast. THERE, I SAID IT
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #128 on: December 24, 2012, 12:46:14 pm »

I think the whole story of Turin's life is my favorite of Tolkien's works.  I think it would translate to film really well, actually... but the thought of Peter Jackson or Hollywood in general having anything to do with it gets me all angsty.  I just don't trust them not to make it feel like modern pop culture fantasy.  Someone like R.A. Salvatore is a better fit for the type of movies they want to make.  I want to see Tolkien adaptations that retain his low-key, slower-paced, old-fashioned style.

And Nightfall in Middle-Earth is one of my favorite albums.  It's one of those rare ones that's actually worth listening to from beginning to end, in order, in one good listening session.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Zarat

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #129 on: December 24, 2012, 12:52:18 pm »

Well, at least according to book

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Correct me on any details I got wrong, I haven't read The Hobbit for quite a while, and I may be misremembering some stuff.  I really need to read that again...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My money is on the Necromancer being the Witch-king, though. In the movie, I mean. Baseless speculation, but still.

Sauron did not lose his ability to shapeshift. After the Downfall of Numenor, he lost the ability to take fair forms - but that's all he lost.

Sauron decidedly did have a humanoid form in the LotR book - several characters make reference to it. Gollum, for example, who was tortured by Sauron, notes that Sauron has only four fingers on one hand.

The whole flaming eye thing was artistic license on the part of PJ.

The Witch-King burial thing is also artistic license. He never died. After the fall of Angmar, Earnur and Glorfindel confronted him, but he fled and Glorfindel forbade pursuit. Glorfindel is the one who prophecies it would not be by the hand of a man the Witch-King would fall.

Indeed, claiming the Witch-King died actually breaks a lot, because immediately after that, he went back to Mordor and worked on re-establishing Sauron's empire, and shortly thereafter laid a trap for Earnur and presumably killed him. After which the Stewards ruled Gondor, waiting for Earnur to return. The Witch-King and the other Ringwraiths also took over Minas Ithil and turned it into Minas Morgul and finished off what was left of Osgiliath during that time.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 12:54:20 pm by Zarat »
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PanH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #130 on: December 24, 2012, 01:21:38 pm »


I'm not sure, but doesn' the death of the Witch King in the movie refers to the defeat of Sauron (the first one) ? Because the nine Nazgūl disappeared/died at that point (because Sauron was defeated).
He reappeared (along with the other Nazgūls) only when Sauron came back as the Necromancer, not before.

If the only change is disappeared to dead, and the burial of the corpse, that doesn't seem so breaking.
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Zarat

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #131 on: December 24, 2012, 01:45:12 pm »


I'm not sure, but doesn' the death of the Witch King in the movie refers to the defeat of Sauron (the first one) ? Because the nine Nazgūl disappeared/died at that point (because Sauron was defeated).
He reappeared (along with the other Nazgūls) only when Sauron came back as the Necromancer, not before.

If the only change is disappeared to dead, and the burial of the corpse, that doesn't seem so breaking.

After the end of the First Age, Sauron "died" twice.

In the first, he conquered essentially all of Middle-Earth, until the Numenoreans got irate that some uppity Maia was claiming the lordship of men and Middle-Earth and landed a massive fleet which all Sauron's armies fled from and Sauron himself surrendered to. Sauron was taken prisoner and drowned in Numenor when the Valar destroyed them for taking Sauron's counsel. I'm not aware of any references to the Ringwraiths yet - they probably still looked like mortal men - but they probably stayed in charge of Mordor at this time. This is also when Sauron lost his ability to shapeshift into a fair form.

Sauron then returned to Mordor and waged war on Middle-Earth again. The Numenorean survivors (Gondor and Arnor) and the Elves waged war against him in the Last Alliance. He died here too. The Ringwraiths disappeared here too, but crucially, they came back and were very active. The Witch-King of Angmar is called such because during this time, he founded the realm of Angmar and destroyed Arnor. The Hobbit is pretty clearly referring to the Witch-King dying after that, which doesn't make any sense whatever and would disrupt the entire timeline (kings would still rule Gondor, Minas Morgul would still be Minas Ithil) even in the context of the movie, since...what the heck would the Witch-King mean in LotR that he couldn't be killed/fall by the hand of the man when he would have already been killed by one?


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sneakey pete

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2012, 05:48:16 pm »

You guys are nerds.

Well obviously.
And with that i'm leaving this topic, since people can't seem to spoiler anything. Dam Australian release date.  :P
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PanH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #133 on: December 24, 2012, 07:12:08 pm »

The Ringwraiths disappeared here too, but crucially, they came back and were very active.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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lemon10

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #134 on: December 24, 2012, 07:28:51 pm »

« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:53:40 pm by lemon10 »
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