Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SalmonGod]

I shouldn't be surprised, but they even worked some violence into Riddles in the Dark?

[mainiac]

My impression from the books is that wizards aren't powerful in the 'chew up 20 orcs on a level field by themselves without breaking a sweat' sense.  It's more that they have a ton of knowledge and wisdom.  They expertly manipulate the flow of events across Middle-Earth, they can generally avoid getting into really dangerous situations, and have a lot of back-up plans and aces up their sleeves at all times. 

When Gandalf finds himself in the middle of a goblin throne room, he doesn't just start slaying.  He produces his notorious artifact weapon, the goblins go "oh shit!", he wipes out the lights, the goblins go "OH SHIT!", he lets it be seen when he strikes down their leader in the darkness, the goblins go "OH SHIT!", and then he slips everyone away in the ensuing shock and panic that he's expertly constructed on a moment's notice. 

There are really only a handful of characters in all of Tolkien lore who respond to being overwhelmingly outnumbered by hacking away with abandon and slaying large numbers single-handedly, and they're always heroic last stands.  In fact, Hurin, Feanor, and Boromir are the only ones who immediately come to mind.  There are other characters who rack up large kill counts and win against overwhelming odds, but only when they're supported by armies on a battlefield.  Remember when Gimli and Legolas have their kill count contest at Helm's Deep?  They only get into the low-40's and that's considered impressive, but it's peanuts compared to the stuff the movies try to portray.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But Gandalf and Radagast aren't up against insane odds.  There's like 15 orcs at most.  And there's like 12 dwarves on their side too.  We aren't talking about an army here, it's just a large gang of orcs up against two wizards.  Yeah wizards don't go for direct conflict if they can avoid it.  But Gandalf was still capable of taking down the Balrog single handedly when push came to shove.  I don't know exactly how many orcs it would take to make two wizards run for their lives but it's a lot more then 15.

What's really frustrating about the movie is the damn inconsistency.  One minute Gandalf, Radagast and the dwarves are running away from a handful of orcs.  The next minute Gandalf and the dwarves are cutting a bloody swathe through the goblin kingdom.  I much prefer the book version where Gandalf uses cleverness against Trolls, stealth against goblins and tree climbing against wolves.  But if the movies are going to just make him an awesome warrior of kickass then he should be so consistently.  I could swallow it if it was a way of developing the plot but it wasn't.  It was just an excuse to set up one action sequence after another.

[SalmonGod]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My impression from the books is that wizards aren't powerful in the 'chew up 20 orcs on a level field by themselves without breaking a sweat' sense.  It's more that they have a ton of knowledge and wisdom.  They expertly manipulate the flow of events across Middle-Earth, they can generally avoid getting into really dangerous situations, and have a lot of back-up plans and aces up their sleeves at all times. 

When Gandalf finds himself in the middle of a goblin throne room, he doesn't just start slaying.  He produces his notorious artifact weapon, the goblins go "oh shit!", he wipes out the lights, the goblins go "OH SHIT!", he lets it be seen when he strikes down their leader in the darkness, the goblins go "OH SHIT!", and then he slips everyone away in the ensuing shock and panic that he's expertly constructed on a moment's notice. 

There are really only a handful of characters in all of Tolkien lore who respond to being overwhelmingly outnumbered by hacking away with abandon and slaying large numbers single-handedly, and they're always heroic last stands.  In fact, Hurin, Feanor, and Boromir are the only ones who immediately come to mind.  There are other characters who rack up large kill counts and win against overwhelming odds, but only when they're supported by armies on a battlefield.  Remember when Gimli and Legolas have their kill count contest at Helm's Deep?  They only get into the low-40's and that's considered impressive, but it's peanuts compared to the stuff the movies try to portray.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But Gandalf and Radagast aren't up against insane odds.  There's like 15 orcs at most.  And there's like 12 dwarves on their side too.  We aren't talking about an army here, it's just a large gang of orcs up against two wizards.  Yeah wizards don't go for direct conflict if they can avoid it.  But Gandalf was still capable of taking down the Balrog single handedly when push came to shove.  I don't know exactly how many orcs it would take to make two wizards run for their lives but it's a lot more then 15.

What's really frustrating about the movie is the damn inconsistency.  One minute Gandalf, Radagast and the dwarves are running away from a handful of orcs.  The next minute Gandalf and the dwarves are cutting a bloody swathe through the goblin kingdom.  I much prefer the book version where Gandalf uses cleverness against Trolls, stealth against goblins and tree climbing against wolves.  But if the movies are going to just make him an awesome warrior of kickass then he should be so consistently.  I could swallow it if it was a way of developing the plot but it wasn't.  It was just an excuse to set up one action sequence after another.

Yeah, I'll agree with all that.  Though I will point out that taking on one boss is different from taking on a whole bunch of mooks.  Plus, Gandalf also died in the fight with the Balrog, but was sent back by Eru Illuvatar.

[Trif]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The biggest change is reoccurring villains. The book was a loose collection of various encounters with different obstacles, and everything tied into a huge climactic ending.
For the movie, there are two villains: Azog, a goblin leader (Thorin maimed him, he's back with a vengeance) and the Necromancer (he makes big spiders appear). They might be the same person, it wasn't entirely clear in the movie.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Uhh, the Necromancer is another person (if you can call him that) entirely and he's kind of a big deal. Hint: All the letters of his name can be found in 'Dinosaur'

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ah, thanks. I was thinking that they were supposed to be different since the Necromancer is in the book but Azog isn't, but there were some confusing details.
The Necromancer was tall and humanoid, and he lived in these ancient ruins. A few scenes later, Azog (who was believed to be dead) shows up in some ruins on top of a hill, so I drew the obvious conclusion.

[Digital Hellhound]

Regardless of what you thought about the movie, I think we can all agree this song is amazing. Some folk, we never forget...

I liked the movie, but I do have some complaints/stuff that bothered me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First - why all the CGI orcs and goblins? They just looked fake - the masks'n'makeup of the LOTR movies worked great, this not so much. The goblins looked very Guillermo de Toroish anyway, though I'm not sure how far they were into the production when he left (this is not necessarily a minus, but anyway). Thankfully most of the dwarves were still human/realistic-looking, so I didn't mind their CGI.

The whole Goblintown (or whatever) escapade was horribly off in tone. The entire segment (save for the Gollum parts, which were excellent) and especially the escape were completely played for laughs - the casual killing of goblins in amusing ways, the way the goblin leader is killed (seriously, those last words?), etc etc. I don't mind these movies being lighter in tone, but they should've stuck to serious in this case. Gah. Did anyone else get this impression/dislike the scene?

Not really a complaint per se, but I expected the movie to have more of a LOTR feel. It felt more... generic, I guess, than the trilogy. I dunno.

Other stuff - man, am I the only one who thinks the Necromancer in his brief appearance looked exactly like Slenderman? No wonder Radagast ran.

[Glowcat]

Regardless of what you thought about the movie, I think we can all agree this song is amazing. Some folk, we never forget...

This video contains content from Sony ATV Publishing and INgrooves, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds? Not really my favorite tune, no. Way too mainstream at this point.

[Digital Hellhound]

It's the Song of the Lonely Mountain that played over the ending credits (and was partially sung and reused constantly in the orchestral pieces), anyway.

[kaijyuu]

Really? I liked the song when it was playing during the movie, but the guy singing it during the credits sounded nothing like a dwarf.

[Digital Hellhound]

Fair enough - the dwarven-sung version (or similar song) is on the soundtrack too, 'Misty Mountains'.

[Scoops Novel]

How are they going to pad out the third movie? I anticipate some of the biggest, longest, most insanely Dwarven fight scenes to have ever occurred.

[Karlito]

I sort of figured that the second movie would be mostly Mirkwood action, there's enough to make a film there, especially if they add some Dol Gudur stuff. Then they've got the dragon and a big battle for the third movie.

[Muz]

I loved the CGI and detail, especially the soundtrack.

But hated the way they told the story. C'mon, 3 hours is enough to tell a whole book. It's not even a thick book. I think a critic got it spot on that it's faster to read some parts than watch it. There's surprisingly more info dumping in the movie than the book, when it's usually movies that cut out detail.

It's nice for the graphics, but the plot felt like something an amateur D&D GM would tell. The movie is not memorable, which is a shame, as the book was my favorite.

[Ultimuh]

There is one small thing which makes me suspect,
the makers of this plays or at least have heard of Dwarf Fortress.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The few scene(s) where they talk about cheese.

[Liber celi]

The whole Goblintown (or whatever) escapade was horribly off in tone. The entire segment (save for the Gollum parts, which were excellent) and especially the escape were completely played for laughs - the casual killing of goblins in amusing ways, the way the goblin leader is killed (seriously, those last words?), etc etc. I don't mind these movies being lighter in tone, but they should've stuck to serious in this case. Gah. Did anyone else get this impression/dislike the scene?

Not really a complaint per se, but I expected the movie to have more of a LOTR feel. It felt more... generic, I guess, than the trilogy. I dunno.

In my opinion the film was too much LotR. This was the reason Goblin Town didn't fit: The film up to this point had been trying too hard to be an epos... which simply isn't in the source material. The Hobbit is a children's book, an adventure's tale, funny at times and silly at others, and while it is a stone in the epic mosaic that is Tolkien's Arda, it just doesn't work as an epos out of itself.

This was the reason they put in Azog(blegh) and put the focus of the film on Gandalf and Thorin instead of Bilbo whenever possible. This is the reason characterization --a point at which the films could have proved better than the book-- was painfully neglected in favour of archetypes... which at such a small scope quickly become stereotypes.

Goblin Town, with its non-LotR aesthetics, and dialogue taken from the book, would have been great on itself. I honestly like the design of the orcs down there most of all the affiliated films, bad CGI or not. But the film had tried very hard up to this point to be a mostly serious epos, that retold the Hobbit scene for scene while trying to build a completely different atmosphere. A darker one. Sure, there were funny scenes in bag's end and with the trolls, but they almost seemed out of place. That shouldn't have happened.

Also the goblin leader was great. Should have replaced Azog. Damn, Peter Jackson in a speedo could have replaced Azog, and it would have improved the film.

[Ultimuh]

Peter Jackson in a speedo could have replaced Azog, and it would have improved the film.

No.. it would not.. comments like theese.. *sigh*