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Author Topic: Which martial art is best?  (Read 17585 times)

kaijyuu

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 06:54:31 pm »

I like whatever one they use in Street Fighter :P
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 06:54:55 pm »

Why would you want to learn practical fighting? What actual benefit does it offer?
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 06:56:55 pm »

I like qwan ki dao, for it combine a mix of everything, from animal form to ritualized movement, from white weapons to tackling, from full contact to stylish kicking.

pretty useless on a true combat, maybe can get you a bit more prepared in a brawl (dodge and run, or kick on the leg and run, according to the situation, works best. why combat?), awesome to keep you in shape.

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Thecard

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 06:57:20 pm »

Why would you want to learn practical fighting? What actual benefit does it offer?
This is from Bucket's ultra-realism-supervillain thread.  I think.  We were discussing it on the main thread, and then Bucket posted this link and said we could talk about it here.
I think he's out-sourcing suggestions to the GD thread.
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I think the slaughter part is what made them angry.
OOC: Dachshundofdoom: This is how the world ends, not with a bang but with goddamn VUVUZELAS.
Those hookers aren't getting out any time soon, no matter how many fancy gadgets they have :v

LordBucket

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 06:59:24 pm »

I think the best martial arts to learn is what you learn on the street.  Karate, tae qwan do, ninjitsu all involve rules.

The idea is valid, but I would disagree with the inclusion of ninjutsu in that list. I did MMA for about 12 years, and had a brief couple month fling with bujinkan ninjutsu. It heavily favored doing what works over what's "traditional" or "fair" and even things like "smash their head into this conveniently nearby wall" and "why not pick up the chair and club them over the head with it" were pretty regularly part of the training.

"Rules" taught by specific martial arts and specific schools is a very real problem. Most karate and tae kwon do schools have their students train barefooted, even though very few of us go barefooted in daily life. Many schools use soft mats, even though there's more carpet and concrete everywhere else. When I did kickboxing and muay tai, most of the training was either done on a bag, standing stationary, or with a partner in a tiny ring. Bag drills are great, but fighting in a ring is very different than fighting anywhere else.

From your list, karate styles are probably the worst. (I did shotokan for 3 years and shito-ryu for 2.) You train barefooted and generally on mats (though to be fair genuine tatami aren't exactly soft.) Grappling practices (not native to karate, but everyone teaches it) tend to involve a lot lapel manipulation, even though nobody in real life wears gi tops. Fighting practice is often in regimented back-and-froth drills. Ground fighting is barely touched upon, if at all. There's a lot of focus on kata. Sparring contact is generally minimal. Very little of the material is applicable to fighting, and you might have to work through a year of learning bad habits before they ever get around to letting you try to apply them. Ippon kumite and related drills are good for learning control, but they're counterproductive for learning to fight.

Worse than karate though, would be aikido (I did aikido for six months) for one very simple reason: the uke/shite relationship. Basically, with aikido, you specifically train with opponents who are trying very hard to cooperate with you, and you are trained to cooperate with your attacker. It's a deliberate philosophical choice, and yes...it's true and a very common premise in a many styles than cooperating with an attack is an effective way to avoid injury (bend like a reed in the wind, and so forth.) But the way it seems to be taught in aikido (general qualifier: my six months at one specific school might not be representative of the style as a whole) crosses into the ridiculous. Basically, a lot of it doesn't work unless your opponent is cooperating with you. And unfortunately my experience with aikidoka is that they don't realize that. I spent a lot of time in my aikido classes standing there passively waiting for my partner to try to do some technique on me, only to eventually be told that I needed to be more cooperative. When a "senior student" with 3 or more years of training can't take down the new guy...that's kind of a problem. And it's not like I was going out of my way to be a troublemaker. The problem seemed to be that if you train for years with people who know the technique you're using and are deliberately putting their body where it needs to be to make it easy for you to do it on them...that's just not conducive to learning how to put somebody in that position yourself.

Anyway, among the styles I've studied, ninjutsu was probably the least limited by rules. Yes, we wore training outfits not representative of daily clothing. But we also trained outdoors, we trained in tiny cramped indoor spaces, we made use of the environment, fatal and debilitating attacks like eye gouges and throat crushing and other "unconventional" things that would generally not be taught in a more "sport" oriented style were all part of the curriculum from day one.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2012, 07:01:12 pm »

If we want to go for effective, the most effective Martial Art is good leadership skills, an understanding of a variety of tactics, and advanced technology.

You got to play the strategic layer if you want maximum efficiency.

After that, mastering a wide variety of guns.
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LordBucket

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2012, 07:02:19 pm »

I think he's out-sourcing suggestions

No, I just didn't want the derail in the game thread. It's pretty obvious I know more about this than the two guys trolling that other thread, but I figured it would be pointless to try to explain it there.

Thecard

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2012, 07:05:43 pm »

Wait a second.  Wait a second.  Wait a second.
You did MMA 12 years, and several other martial arts for a couple years each, and you're still asking us in the super-villain thread??  Bro, you're perfectly entitled to say "lolno, you wanna do x, not y, now shut up before you sprain something."

I actually did try karate for about a year, but quit 'cause the teacher was kinda a douchenozz.


Also, what you said about Bujinkan Ninjutsu sounds pretty fucking rad, if you don't mind me saying so.


Oh.  Bucket Ninja'd me.  I swear, this fucking day.
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I think the slaughter part is what made them angry.
OOC: Dachshundofdoom: This is how the world ends, not with a bang but with goddamn VUVUZELAS.
Those hookers aren't getting out any time soon, no matter how many fancy gadgets they have :v

Cthulhu

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2012, 07:06:13 pm »

I'm gonna side with GlyphGryph.  Civilized people as a rule don't street fight.  If you're punching another adult in real life outside of a structured competitive setting, either you or your opponent has recently made some decisions unbecoming a rational human being.

The only reason outside sports and recreation for learning martial arts is karate fantasy, and if you're going around fantasizing about getting mugged why would you want to fantasize using practical martial arts?  Dragon kick that guy!

Plus, practical martial arts:  Hit him in the balls and run.  There you go, you know practical martial arts now.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 07:09:54 pm by Cthulhu »
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Nadaka

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2012, 07:10:21 pm »

Tank warfare is the best martial art.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/girls-und-panzer
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2012, 07:14:51 pm »

Plus, practical martial arts:  Hit him in the balls and run.  There you go, you know practical martial arts now.

Actually you should go for the knee. less effective but easier; go low if you aren't trained to kick as it is difficult to put strength behind a high kick, the higher the worse if you're untrained. and then run. you are only looking to make him running slower than you.
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Thecard

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2012, 07:18:34 pm »

'Course, there's also the important lesson DF taught us.  Hitting someone in the gut makes it easier to hit them in the face.
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I think the slaughter part is what made them angry.
OOC: Dachshundofdoom: This is how the world ends, not with a bang but with goddamn VUVUZELAS.
Those hookers aren't getting out any time soon, no matter how many fancy gadgets they have :v

GlyphGryph

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 07:22:56 pm »

Also, if you manage to get into a fight despite being rational, by all means expect them to pull out a gun, and if you let them get away while you remain in the same place, expect them to come back with one.
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LordBucket

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2012, 07:33:40 pm »

Bro, you're perfectly entitled to say "lolno, you wanna do x, not y, now shut up before you sprain something."

I'm the GM. It's not appropriate for me to tell you guys what to do.

Quote
I actually did try karate for about a year, but quit 'cause the teacher was kinda a douchenozz.

Which style? Which school?

Quote
Also, what you said about Bujinkan Ninjutsu sounds pretty fucking rad, if you don't mind me saying so.

...well, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that ninjutsu is "best." It's very appropriate for some people with certain goals. Not so much for others. For example, you probably wouldn't want your 12 year old taking it, then getting into a fight at school and having to explain why he gouged the other kids eyes out...because that was just the most practical thing to do at the time. If you're looking to be a prize fighter, ninjutsu has been been reasonably well demonstrated to not be a great choice either, for similar reasons. A lot of what's taught in totally inapplicable in a ring. Ninjutsu training spends lot of time on "other things." Simply as a matter of common sense...if you have two people of equal physical potential, and one spends 100 training how to fight, and the other guy spends 25 hours training how to fight, 25 hours training to use weapons, 25 hours training how to avoid injury while falling and 25 hours training to navigate terrain and move silently...who's probably going to win in a fight? Obviously the guy who spent all his time training to fight is going to have an advantage.

Which is what motivates #3 in the rules list in the opening post of the thread. What's your goal? Some styles are probably better choices for certain goals. If "coolness factor" is your goal, ninjutsu is a great choice. But if your goal is to quickly and efficiently become able to defend yourself in a fight...honestly I think my advice would be take an aerobic/kickboxing class that focuses on bag work. Odds are good that you're not going to be fighting any UFC champions in your average street fight. The vast majority of everything taught at most martial arts schools is just not that important. Your time would be better spent just learning to punch something a lot and really hard without getting tired and without hurting yourself in the process. It's comical to have someone study martial arts for years and years...then finally get into a fight and they hurt themselves because they've never actually hit anything before. That happens.

Winning strategy to winning most street fights:
1) Hit opponent
2) If you're still standing, go to step 1.
3) If you're on the ground, go to step 1.

The rest is just physical training.

Cthulhu

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2012, 07:34:26 pm »

Also, if you manage to get into a fight despite being rational, by all means expect them to pull out a gun, and if you let them get away while you remain in the same place, expect them to come back with one.

That too.  Seanbaby put it best:

Quote from: Seanbaby
If you're the kind of person who enters unlicensed street fights, you're either a middle schooler without a father or somewhere far away, not being that middle schooler's father. I can't verify these statistics, but it's a safe bet that if a grown man is punching people, he has a 20 percent chance of also carrying a secret knife for when he's worried he'll lose. Which means that anyone who has been in more than five street fights is lying, dead or known as the Night Stabber to baffled investigators.
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