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[Lagslayer]

I saw this article today. It's something I've been turning over in my head and commenting on for years, but now it seems to finally be coming into view for everyone else.

We are at the point where prosthetics are outperforming our natural body parts. As a result, people will start replacing bits of their body as the machines begin to outperform it. It started with replacement out of necessity, because it was otherwise unhealable, but now it's going to become a routine thing. Machines are already stronger than our muscles, but it's only a matter of time until the brain becomes obsolete as well. The result is no more humans. I, for one, kind of want humans to remain relevant, as something that cannot be replaced. I don't want humans to drive themselves to extinction, let alone so willingly. However, simply outlawing the technology would likely not go over well, for various reasons. We need an alternative. The way I figure, there are 3 ways this could go down:

1. Continue to replace the fleshy bits until there is nothing left. Human extinction.
2. Genetically engineer humans to be stronger/faster/smarter. Better than the above, but only barely. We get to keep our fleshy bits, but if we manipulate the genome in this manner, can we even be considered human anymore?
3. Augment our bodies chemically, without the use of genetic engineering on human DNA. Basically steroids. This is the option I would endorse. The DNA remains intact, and our bodies are enhanced to better keep up with our machine technology, or perhaps even surpass it. The problem I see with this is that with current law, something like this would be nigh-impossible to get approved. Even simple cold medicine takes decades to go through all the hoops put in front of it. Another issue is that with our bodies doing more of the work, we would have to be responsible for it. People won't be able to just blame some arcane computer system for the fuck-ups anymore, and it's driving people away from doing it themselves, even today.



I an very, very seriously concerned about this. And now, I ask bay12 and the vast, collective experience and knowledge of the internet and it's viewers what we can do about this. Please, spread the word. This needs to get out before it is too late.

[penguinofhonor]

I don't really care what our minds go into as long as they're still there. A species of robots with human minds will still do all the same cool stuff.

[Frumple]

Human's more than the fleshy bits, IMO. If we leave the meatbag behind for something better, more durable, more capable... would that really be that bad? By the time we're able to do that, we'll easily be able to solve any issues regarding reproduction and creating new, unique, personalities. Humans'll still be human, we'll just be a bit more capable than a jumped up ape.

Here's to the future, where headaches have a 1/0 toggle *toast*

[andrea]

I don't see anything too wrong with number 2. although if we go too far, humanity would become a collection of slightly different species. Then, we can watch star trek without wondering why all aliens are humanoid.

number one has the fault of lack of breeding. I hope we don't go too far in that direction.

[RedKing]

Fuck yeah. Upgrade me, if it tacks on another 50 productive years to my life.

EDIT: Considering the planet's overpopulation issues, declining breeding rates aren't necessarily a bad thing.

[penguinofhonor]

I don't see anything too wrong with number 2. although if we go too far, humanity would become a collection of slightly different species. Then, we can watch star trek without wondering why all aliens are humanoid.

CTRL+C, CTRL+V

You have created a new human mind.

[Cthulhu]

Are they still there though?  When you upload your mind into a computer is that your mind?  If it erases the mind in your brain (Not that I know how they would do that except by destroying the brain), are you dead?  If it doesn't, then how is that mind in the computer you?  As soon as it comes into existence it's going to be seeing things from a different perspective and forming different conclusions.  It's like the "Is sex with your clone masturbation or incest?" question.  As soon as it comes into existence, even if it has the same memories, it's going to diverge and no longer be you.

Yeah, that's great that robots with human minds can do the same stuff, but I'm not one of them.

[Flying Dice]

The fleshy bits don't make us human. Our DNA is arguably relevant, though it should be noted that our definition of humanity changes to match the socio-cultural-temporal norm. Our minds are what really matter. By this logic, transcendence would also be unthinkably horrific, and I can't agree with that. As long as there's a solid, continuous chain of existence for the mind, little else matters.

[Cthulhu]

But what is the mind?  As far as I can tell, the mind is entirely derived from the structure and function of the brain.  The only way to transfer it would be to mimic its structure in a new format.  That's not really transferring, that's copying.

Aside from actually pulling out your brain and putting it in a robot body, I don't see how you can have a continuous chain of existence.

[Lectorog]

My current goal in life is to (help) make beings better than humans. So I'm for #1; I think it's also the most likely to happen.

The Singularity is Near is excellent reading for this topic.

[Scoops Novel]

I am very, very, incredibly glad the brain is as complicated as it is. Understanding that, let alone upgrading that will be difficult, and until then no mind reading!

[andrea]

CTRL+C, CTRL+V
You have created a new human mind.

no, you have created more of the same.
not only it doesn't add turnover in human collective minds, but any annoying person you might know could suddenly become 50x more annoying, due to mind cloning

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Are they still there though?  When you upload your mind into a computer is that your mind?  If it erases the mind in your brain (Not that I know how they would do that except by destroying the brain), are you dead?  If it doesn't, then how is that mind in the computer you?  As soon as it comes into existence it's going to be seeing things from a different perspective and forming different conclusions.  It's like the "Is sex with your clone masturbation or incest?" question.  As soon as it comes into existence, even if it has the same memories, it's going to diverge and no longer be you.

Yeah, that's great that robots with human minds can do the same stuff, but I'm not one of them.

This question of identity always struck me as odd, as it seems simple enough to me: "I" am a specific set of perceptions, memories, and drives contained together in a semi-permeable system, forming a mind. If this is perfectly copied to a computer, than the mind inside the computer is by definition me. If my organic self remains, than there are two of me until our different lives make us into fundamentally different people. If the original is destroyed, then there is only one concurrent me and that is me.

We already use technology to augment our limited abilities. Indeed, that is pretty much technology verbatim. My glasses allow my horrifically maladjusted cornea to perceive this screen as if I had perfect vision. My computer lets me talk to you all even though we're all many miles apart and for the most part have never met each other.

[Levi]

Dang, I tried to find a longish-quote from Transmetropolitan about this, but couldn't find it.

The gist of it is:
Are you still human if you lose a leg?  Of course!
Are you still human if you replace the leg with a prosthetic?  Of course!
Are you still human if you replace all your limbs with prosthetics?  Of course!

So at what point in replacing pieces of yourself are you no longer human?  The answer is never.  You can replace every single part and still be human.

[penguinofhonor]

So what if I get rid of an entire human and replace it with my toaster, hm? Is my toaster a human?