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[Tiruin]

The Old Parchment Reads:

Burn_heal: Irony Owl,   
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,   
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   
Tiruin: Captain Ford,   
Ironyowl: Burn_heal

Not Voting: Fraxert,

Err, no Fraxert response yet :/


@Ford: I guess you're missing my main point. The one in the final quote there...

Utter jubilance. As if you're trying to either draw fire from a threat that does or doesn't exist and making a big thing about it when nothing new surfaced except for the lack of the NK!

You beat around the bush. Not explaining much on the reasoning behind that statement,

Spoiler: Like what I've been asking for (click to show/hide)

'That makes me an obvious target for the last remaining bandit' - Why.
The vote was tied up until I changed my vote to ReDeadEr at the last second (within 30 minutes of day end). If I were scum, that would have been a ludicrously bad move, especially when I could have let it go to a no-lynch.
- why. And why would you have let it gone into a no-lynch anyway, especially?
OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim. - What? So either you're the bandit, or a really headstrong doctor. Since you just inserted a piece of conjunctive reasoning there.

And you end it with "I realize I can't prove I'm not the last bandit." but vehemently insist that you're most likely to be town without explaining why!

To add to it: On my questioning on why the doctor would claim
> 'Um...newbies make mistakes more often? Is that really such a hard connection to make? I mean, it's practically the definition of a newbie.'
How would anyone, in their right minds, claim doctor at a time like this. What are its benefits? What are its consequences?

Some of your parts aim at twisting information which is blatantly obvious. @ Part 4: I made no mention of RDE, specifically in that sentence. I said My aims were not to discredit anyone which pertains to your claim of me discrediting you. Where is it, that I am discrediting you in relation to alignment?

Finally, for brevity of this post, 'You've been discrediting the result of the last lynch since the day began. I seriously can't believe you're asking me this. It's like we aren't playing the same game.'

Opinions without quotes along with an aloof threat. How can I obviously discredit what the mod posted in RED and ITALICS? I can't see what you're getting at at all. Besides, if I'm discrediting RDE's recent flip, don't you think others would've caught onto it right now? Know what I'm talking about, and its mostly not on what is in your five-part thesis against the holistic me.

The usage of headstrong may have been wrong wording, I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and are stating such in that one post so as to make a bold distraction. Either that, or scum. Because it just doesn't make sense that you're keeping on pointing to the NK, you being a target, and your survival -- explanation below.

Think of it like this. In the hypothetical situation that you are the doc and your target was protected, you'd exclaim such as nobody else is the doctor and nobody else would have a valid claim to deter you AND scum would probably think twice about targeting you that coming night. If your target wasn't protected, you'd have known there was no kill.

But I've noticed, you draw attention to that in most of your posts from then on.

Scum explanation (a bit gutsy, but it depends on the following explanations which help support it): You either had your kill protected, or you chose to refrain from shooting anyone. Now if there was a doc or not, he's not be sure if the protect went through or that his protect failed, verging more on the former IMO, because that's what I'd assume instead. The point is, it would be hard for everyone else to see the results until later in the game.

You also keep on stating that you're most likely to be town.

Why don't you answer that? :/

I thought it was obvious. And given by the reactions of other people, it was.

How was it obvious then? I can see the [abbr] reactions there, but how sure are you that you're in the clear?

You hold me responsible for my vote on scientist, but did I do anything in regards to his survival?

Yeah. You voted him. That kills people, Tiruin.

Then let's cut straight to the point.

Can you summarize your case against me? {I don't get the reference...except for that one top rated comment...}

However, I believe you're looking at this mess this way:

> You assume, from a town viewpoint that scum would target you specifically for a NK. Why > 'It was obvious' > Why. I'd like to see details on why it is obvious. Testimonies from other people won't work.

> Either scum NK'd or didn't > Claimant that there is a doctor > Why. Why this instead of going on the thinking that scum didn't NK - while impractical, it has happened in different Bay12 Mafia games before. Why not leave the idea alone? Perhaps it was due to the spur of the moment, but you cannot redact any thing you post. You can only edit it or clarify it via other posts.

> Check that quote above for more questions. Because your thesis proves lacking...

Let me explain. Sure, it looks to you (and I don't blame you for that as it is your viewpoint, which I respect) that you've answered my question. Saying a stated opinion like 'It's obvious' doesn't give much to reason about. I may have undergone the error of assuming you knew that, but this part is of my own fault it seems.

Why is it obvious, is what I'm targeting. I've been basing this case mostly on that one post you've made there and moving from that point, to answer your doubt that I'm ignoring what you're saying. {And I'd be up for worst IC of the century if that's so :/}

{Now on the first >, I'd like to introduce a small concept in Law. There are two reasons a suspect can use in his/her defense which are considered weak: the alibi "Where were you at..." and the person's defense. Both are taken by word and on their own, without conclusive evidence, they can easily be made up or extracted from the imagination.

Prima facie evidence from observation needs something to back it up if the case is to be resolved. This is where the questioning starts, with a basis and an idea.}

This is why you are scummy in my eyes, you seem to be subtly avoiding my main point of my case, emphasized in that one liner post. "Can you explain how you came up with this?"

Answers like 'I thought it was obvious. And given by the reactions of other people, it was.' isn't a good example of what to answer. Firstly, if someone is asking for the obvious, then at least give your own reasoning prior to thinking that the asker is being blunt. Second, using other people's testimonies in proving yourself as town (excuse me if I quote them below)

IronyOwl

What do you have to say for yourself, IronyOwl?

That it's kind of shameful that we got lucky D2 and scum overplayed their hand D3. I didn't do anything, but I'm unimpressed with your pawns, Bookthras. Unless it's fraxert after all in which case I'm unimpressed with your lurking pawns, and if it's Ford after all then GOD DAMN IT.

But, more likely I'm unimpressed with your pawns. Nice cajones going after the lurking IC, but too theatrical and baseless with it.

Burn_heal

Sorry about the decrease is post count. Been busier. Here are my thoughts:


Captain Ford I think can be fairly safely noted as being innocent, lol.

Onyxjew

Captain Ford Nothing much on him, he openly called it luck when he got ReDeadEr. Shooting down a mafioso does help him be called innocent, and the fact that he has been pretty active as far as I can tell leaves me with little reason to chase him. Not completely off the list, as no one is until they're dead.

are not conclusive to ending up at being town for everyone involved. Leading to me questioning you.

[Captain Ford]

Tiruin:

Spoiler: Off Topic (click to show/hide)

Yeah. You voted him. That kills people, Tiruin.

{I don't get the reference...except for that one top rated comment...}

Oh, it was very simple. I was just quoting a line from the video. "Carl, that kills people!" = "That kills people, Tiruin".

The link should have sent you to exactly that point in the video.

I suppose that's yet another thing that flew over your head. 

First of all, Unvote. I believe I have finally figured out where you're coming from.

I never really had a case on you. I was confused about what you were doing, so I decided to push and see what happened. I'm now satisfied with what I've found.

I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and are stating such in that one post so as to make a bold distraction.

Spoiler: Tangent: English Nitpicking (click to show/hide)

I've been trying not to poke at your english, but this time I think I have to.

You said: "I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and are stating such in that one post so as to make a bold distraction."

An equivalent phrase is: "I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and you also said you were the doctor in that one post so as to make a bold distraction."

Can you see how that would cause me to be confused? I never claimed I was a doctor.

I think you meant: "I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and said those things in that one post so as to make a bold distraction."

I'm going to assume that's what you meant.

OH! I actually get that.

I never actually considered that possibility because I found it to be absurd. I've been so certain the NK would be aimed at me, I figured that if I were the doctor, I'd be dead right now.

Okay, I think I see where you're coming from now. When I start considering the possibility of me being the doctor, I have to start considering the possibility that someone else was the NK target. Even if I wasn't the doctor, that's still a possibility.

Well, here, maybe I can finally put this issue to rest then:

...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!

We have a Doctor in the house!

I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?

At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away. We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!

Captain Ford: Can you explain how you came up with this?

Okay, line by line, now.

...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!

I didn't expect to survive the night. I expected to be night killed. It was a very disappointing thing to happen immediately after I lynched scum, which was really exciting!

When I didn't die that night, I was really surprised and excited.

We have a Doctor in the house!

I believed we had a doctor in the house.

Now, I know this is a HUGE leap of logic for you, but...

IF, as the first sentence says, I expected to die last night, then it logically follows that I was saved by a doctor's protect.

Yes, there are other explanations. But it's the simplest one possible. It doesn't require anyone to take any risks or make any bad choices. It doesn't require the 20% chance of fraxert being scum, or the remote possibility of a bandit completely missing the 24 hour window to post their action, or for a bandit to take a gamble with a very low chance to pay off.

Now, if that isn't good enough, explain to me what is wrong with that reasoning.

I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?

I had no idea ReDeadEr was scum. I thought he was the doctor. This is the truth.

In particular, I thought this might explain my behavior towards him. The reason why I pressed him so hard and then unvoted him without a good explanation. I really didn't know he was scum. I only voted him because of his low activity. This means I got lucky.

The second part, about it feeling good, is the truth. It feels great!

Day 2 was depressing, Nerjin even posted that he was worried about people getting discouraged. I felt the mood of the game had been uplifted. I was celebrating that.

It felt good, and I was reveling in it. Because it felt good. That is actually logical.

At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away.

This is so straightforward I can only call you an idiot for questioning it.

We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!

Again, this is me being excited. IronyOwl is correct that I am being friendly toward the doctor. I understand the point you and IronyOwl are making about it, and I understood it at the time.

That post was a bold move. I made it because I was confident about how things would turn out. I did it exactly because it limits my options in the future. I made a commitment that I wasn't going to back down from.

* * *

Now maybe you want to know my motives. You have never, ever asked about them, but I suspect that's what you've been trying to get at this whole time.

I did it because people were already going to suspect I was town. I addressed the questions that were on everyone's mind, and said, "Yes, I saw that too, and yes, I think it was a doctor protect too, and yes, this game just got a lot more interesting, and yes, I am excited about it, especially after how depressing day 2 was."

I see the point you're making, and it's bunk. I did this specifically because it might look scummy. I'm not afraid. If you lynch me, we still won't lose outright.

I did it to save us time and energy. I did it to maximize the potential benefit to the town. And I did it in the hopes that if I was lynched, it might draw out the actual scum.

* * *

Now Tiruin, if this somehow doesn't answer your question, give me an example of what you're looking for. That's all I'm asking for. It isn't that hard.

[Nerjin]

Other than the dusty wind, a few words, and a mumbled apology nothing much happened for a few hours.

Bear in mind that a second extension won't go through if you don't make better use of the one you have.

Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 48 hours left.


The Old Parchment Reads:

Burn_heal: Irony Owl,   

Onyxjew944:

Captain Ford: Tiruin,   

Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   

Tiruin:

Ironyowl: Burn_heal

Not Voting: Fraxert,   Captain Ford
[/quote]

[burn_heal]

Request replacement

[lynx_]

I'll play if you still need a replacement.

[IronyOwl]

That would be good. Unless we're just gonna lynch burn_heal anyway.

I'm afraid I'm still not ready to be useful, but it seems Ford and Tiruin are... more or less finished? I honestly can't follow those WoTs.

[Shakerag]

I'm afraid I'm still not ready to be useful, but it seems Ford and Tiruin are... more or less finished? I honestly can't follow those WoTs.

ಠ_ಠ

[Nerjin]

With a large start Fraxert awoke. "Ah!" With a heavy pant he looked around at the darkening ground "Sorry folks... I just... Dozed off for a while I guess..." Though in the end this changed absolutely nothing he now asked to be referred to as his old nickname Lynx_

Lynx_ has replaced in for Fraxert!

Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 31 hours left.


The Old Parchment Reads:

Burn_heal: Irony Owl,   

Onyxjew944:

Captain Ford: Tiruin,   

Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   

Tiruin:

Ironyowl: Burn_heal

Not Voting: Lynx_,   Captain Ford

[Captain Ford]

IronyOwl:

That would be good. Unless we're just gonna lynch burn_heal anyway.

I'm curious why you said burn_heal and not fraxert. They both needed replacements.

I'm afraid I'm still not ready to be useful, but it seems Ford and Tiruin are... more or less finished? I honestly can't follow those WoTs.

I really hope so. I got what I wanted from him, but I don't know if he's satisfied yet. It's been a really strange conversation.


_lynx: I (and I think everyone else) would like to see your reads on everyone as soon as you can manage.


Also, a head's up. I'm going to be completely unavailable from Friday through Sunday.

[Nerjin]

Whatever kindness there was in Jackelope died around Day 3. It was small things really. The lynchings provided security at first but soon they began to turn neighbor against neighbor. Even Burn_heal was affected. No longer did they call him by the silly nickname they had given him due to his affinity for accidently burning himself upon cooking fires. No, they now referred to him by his true name superBlast. It was a sad reality that they all faced, yet only one reveled in.

superBlast has replaced Burn_heal

Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 21 hours left.


The Old Parchment Reads:

superBlast: Irony Owl,   

Onyxjew944:

Captain Ford: Tiruin,   

Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   

Tiruin:

Ironyowl: superBlast

Not Voting: Lynx_,   Captain Ford

[superBlast]

I'm taking Burn_Heal's place... so uh... Hello everyone! Right now I'm going through the whole thread to get caught up on what's currently going on.

So until I get get caught up on things, I'm going to unvote. If I reading the Old Parchment correctly, I'm currently voting for Irony. Though I have no idea why I am, so that's why I'm unvoting.

Then again if I'm reading the votes correctly, it doesn't really matter lol.

[Nerjin]

[Hey guys! How are you all doing? Well anyway to superBlast the reason you were voting Irony is because Burn_heal was. I'm pretty sure when you replace in you're just inherit the other person's vote. If I was wrong could an IC tell me? ANYWAY just a bit under 20 hours left so... hop to it.]

[IronyOwl]

[Hey guys! How are you all doing? Well anyway to superBlast the reason you were voting Irony is because Burn_heal was. I'm pretty sure when you replace in you're just inherit the other person's vote. If I was wrong could an IC tell me? ANYWAY just a bit under 20 hours left so... hop to it.]

Generally speaking, yes. Also extend. I don't like extending without doing much anything, but we've got two replacements and fairly scattered opinions.


Ford:

I'm curious why you said burn_heal and not fraxert. They both needed replacements.

I suspected burn_heal of being overconfident scum. fraxert I was less concerned was lurking scum.


Onyxjew:

IronyOwl

I think I may have been a bit cryptic in response to you earlier, which I think was because I wanted someone else's answers before answering myself. Sorry about that if so.

Which answers and who were you asking?

I forget and don't particularly feel like going back to check, but something about my "leading the charge" on scientist, I think.

Speaking of which, you've been awfully quiet lately. Been busy, not sure what to do, happy with how everything's playing out, what is it?

[superBlast]

[Hey guys! How are you all doing? Well anyway to superBlast the reason you were voting Irony is because Burn_heal was. I'm pretty sure when you replace in you're just inherit the other person's vote. If I was wrong could an IC tell me? ANYWAY just a bit under 20 hours left so... hop to it.]

I kinda figured the reason why I was voting Irony was because Burn was. I meant I didn't know why Burn was voting in the first place since I replace Burn, Burn is me in this game... so yeah...

Anyways, I read the whole thread and... holy crap... Mafia might not be a good game for me... I'm still gonna play of course, but because I suck at explaining the way I think will make it hard for me to explain my case against people that I suspect. Plus alot of it is how I feel. I hope I wrong about Mafia not being good a good game for me lol. Also I hate the fact I can't use the edit button... I'm prone to typos. Though I do understand the reason behind it.

Though one thing I know I'm going to hate is I might over think things. Every action I can think of does feels scummy to even myself. So if something feels scummy to me, then of course it'll feel scummy to someone else. but then again that's part of the game... if there was a way to out right prove your not a mafia guy, there would be no point to the game. Like I said I over think things.

======================================================================================================================

First off, I vote for Lynx, mainly because the person he replaced hasn't been active. Whether he is the scum or townie, I feel it's best to get the inactive person out of the way. If he is the bandit, awesome we win. If he's not, then we can focus on the one that is the bandit without the unhelpful guy attracting suspicion. If Lynx says something, and says something convincing me he not the bandit, then I'll unvote and figure out who I should set my sights on.

When the night ends and for whatever reason I'm not the unlucky guy to get night killed, I'll post up my list of most suspicious people. I would do it now, but if i'm correct, that'll place a huge target on my back that says, "Please kill me now!" Then again if I'm right it might not be a good idea to to kill me since that'll throw suspension on the guy at the top of my list, which if I'm right, it'll through suspicion on on the bandit. If I'm wrong then that would be the perfect time to to night kill me since that'll throw suspension on some townie I was wrongly suspicious of....... my head hurts (metaphorically)....

Ugh.... see how I over think things? Anyways best to keep my list of suspicious people to myself for now. Hopefully.

@ICs, about how many mistakes did I just make? I got the gut feeling I made at least one.

[superBlast]

Generally speaking, yes. Also extend. I don't like extending without doing much anything, but we've got two replacements and fairly scattered opinions.

Yeah... I might want an extend so I can have more time to figure stuff out on my own. Though I want the day to just be done and over with to weed out more people. Though I'm kinda afraid my time playing the game will be short by either winning, or get my ass killed at night by the whim of the bandit.

I suspected burn_heal of being overconfident scum. fraxert I was less concerned was lurking scum.

That means I'm said overconfident scum now, correct?