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[Telgin]

I guess what I'm saying is that it's an all-or-nothing system, IMHO. Either stay in and get your Doctorate, or save your money and get the hell out early and build real-world experience.

I could write an entire rant on Ph.Ds and how they suffer the same problem of people trying to get them when they have no business doing so, and how pointless they can be despite the effort.  It's really unfortunate.

[RedKing]

So there you have it, kids. DON'T stay in school (any longer than the bare minimum needed to convince future employers that you're not an imbecile and/or crack addict).

To borrow a line from The Incredibles, "When everybody is super, then nobody is."

[Telgin]

That's a statement I could get behind.  I've seen firsthand several times over at my current employer that people without degrees are often more capable than those who do.  My manager is a great programmer and excellent system administrator despite having dropped out of college.  Our company thusly puts little emphasis on degrees and a lot more on, "Show us what you've done or can do."

If more employers had that attitude and people shot for experience, I think things would be in much better shape.

[RedKing]

Ditto. When I tell people my educational background (BA, History; BA, Archaeology; Master's of International Studies), the question is always the same: "How in the hell did you wind up working in technical support for (going on) 15 years?"

I have had ZERO formal computer science education. And yet, known far more than most recent CompSci graduates. But get paid a lot less (or flat rejected for many jobs) because I don't have that degree. And of course, I don't even fucking WANT to work in I.T.!! I'd much rather work in the field I studied, but there aren't any jobs, especially for someone with no experience. 

[Helgoland]

Couldn't you get a degree now? The father of a friend of mine made his Abitur (which you need to go to university) at an evening school after having gone to Hauptschule (which back then wasn't as bad as it is now, but still.), and then went on to study, I dunno, some IT stuff. Now he's got quite a good job, and they're currently building a house.

[Thecard]

Couldn't you get a degree now? The father of a friend of mine made his Abitur (which you need to go to university) at an evening school after having gone to Hauptschule (which back then wasn't as bad as it is now, but still.), and then went on to study, I dunno, some IT stuff. Now he's got quite a good job, and they're currently building a house.

That's in Germany, though.

Also, got my PSAT score back today.  Did surprising well for someone who didn't study.  Ever.

[Skyrunner]

Whats the state of it, how could it be improved, what are the thoughts of those within the profession and what are your own experiences?

In what country?

In general the thread has been about U.S. schools, but we are happy to listen to you rant about your country (even better if it has similar problems as what we have in the U.S., since then we can compare and contrast).

I did rant about mine... xD

[Alpha Dwarf]

Three point education plan:

One: Ramones - Rock 'n Roll High School

Two: D.R.I. - Beneath the Wheel

Three: Individual educational planning. Most people don't need more than reading and writing from our universal education. At some point, regular schoolwork becomes work for the sake of doing work.

[Zrk2]

Three: Individual educational planning. Most people don't need more than reading and writing from our universal education. At some point, regular schoolwork becomes work for the sake of doing work.

Y'don't say? I'm pretty sure most elementary school exists to babysit kids so their parents can work.