Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Thor (heavy frigate)

0 (0%)

Hiram (Railgun drone)

0 (0%)

Occido MI (exploding mimic dron)

0 (0%)

Lux (Laser corvette)

0 (0%)

Stone (Solar sail transport)

0 (0%)

BIFROST (Laser drone)

0 (0%)

Pythagoras (Recovery ship)

0 (0%)

Julius (transforming drone)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: December 13, 2012, 01:24:40 pm

[10ebbor10]

A railgun relies on a magnetic field to arcelerate a projectile. If 80% of that projectily is not magnetic, the railguns magnetic field needs to be 5 times as strong and energy using to compensate.Besides, we can't really do the biopolymer thingy. Our plastic is limited to basic plastics. Can't even make reentry capable plastic or stuff like that.

Drones are always going to be operating near convoys. Space isn't as big when they're doing that. Besides, these shells will accumulate in orbit.

At this moment the GM hasn't really said anything about any sort of ship, so I'm basing things of logic. The most logic thing is that most ships will not have a giant gaping hole in their defenses. I assume that the GM hasn't even closely read, and certainly wouldn't comment on all the posts untill a turn comes by.

I didn't complain about lasers. I did however note that attaching an energy hungry weapon to a battery power supply, rather than a reactor might not be the smartest thing to do.

Also, just for clearity. Point defense is a general term for a fixed defensive system. Ie a system designed to secure a limited area around itself. Calling something a point defense system doesn't imply that it's good at stopping missiles, or bad at drones.

Well since you folks seem to be stuck at a weapon choice expect laser/rails. Can't we use one of these?

-Heated Plasma
-Ion cannons
-Live ammunition (Good 'ol bullets)

About the missiles... We keep thinking about the big lumbersome kind, which hits hard. We could make a missile which splits into lesser missiles, It reduces he effective damage of point defense because it has more targets to destroy. But we sacrifice destruction power for it though, on the other side. Hitting something is better than nothing right?

I would prefer to wait with weapon choice untill we get the Oculus network online and see what we're up against

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well since you folks seem to be stuck at a weapon choice expect laser/rails. Can't we use one of these?

-Heated Plasma
-Ion cannons
-Live ammunition (Good 'ol bullets)

About the missiles... We keep thinking about the big lumbersome kind, which hits hard. We could make a missile which splits into lesser missiles, It reduces he effective damage of point defense because it has more targets to destroy. But we sacrifice destruction power for it though, on the other side. Hitting something is better than nothing right?

Heated plasma might work, but it sounds like an awfully close-range weapon without some sort of capsule around it.
What the heck is an ion cannon?
If by good "ol'" bullets you mean chemically-propelled projectiles, no. Those don't work too well in space for a few reasons I'll try to look up. Heat is one of them. They really don't have any benefit over railguns to make up for that, either.
The splitting missile might work, depending on the level of extant point defense. If it's a dozen automatic lasers to a side, it's screwed anyway, but a single human-controlled laser (terrible point defense, though) would be easily defeated by that move.

A railgun relies on a magnetic field to arcelerate a projectile. If 80% of that projectily is not magnetic, the railguns magnetic field needs to be 5 times as strong and energy using to compensate.Besides, we can't really do the biopolymer thingy. Our plastic is limited to basic plastics. Can't even make reentry capable plastic or stuff like that.

I'd like to hear the GM's ruling on the polymer before writing it off, and the 80% plastic was to reduce costs...because we don't have lots of irorn.
Besides, plastic is typically lighter than iron, so less than five times as much as a solid iron round.

Drones are always going to be operating near convoys. Space isn't as big when they're doing that. Besides, these shells will accumulate in orbit.

Probably but they'd be detected before impact so it would be easy to point-defense or dodge away, and they projectiles would probably be going too fast to orbit.

At this moment the GM hasn't really said anything about any sort of ship, so I'm basing things of logic. The most logic thing is that most ships will not have a giant gaping hole in their defenses. I assume that the GM hasn't even closely read, and certainly wouldn't comment on all the posts untill a turn comes by.

I suggested the idea, twice, and others suggested combat drones.
Tour "logic" relies on combat drones being common enough that people would be willing to increase costs or vulnerability to missiles to protect against them. Missiles and drones are a lot different from each other.

Also, just for clearity. Point defense is a general term for a fixed defensive system. Ie a system designed to secure a limited area around itself. Calling something a point defense system doesn't imply that it's good at stopping missiles, or bad at drones.

And knowing is half the battle.
Still, a pd system which works at the ranges and specs needed for drones would be a lot different than what's needed for missiles.

Well since you folks seem to be stuck at a weapon choice expect laser/rails. Can't we use one of these?

-Heated Plasma
-Ion cannons
-Live ammunition (Good 'ol bullets)

About the missiles... We keep thinking about the big lumbersome kind, which hits hard. We could make a missile which splits into lesser missiles, It reduces he effective damage of point defense because it has more targets to destroy. But we sacrifice destruction power for it though, on the other side. Hitting something is better than nothing right?

I would prefer to wait with weapon choice untill we get the Oculus network online and see what we're up against

Wouldn't the government know some? General idea okay.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I follow the thread quite closely, but I'll not give any hints on ideas that are at least somewhat reasonable.
You need to propose something like black hole generator for me saying that this will not work.


I just ask you to not assume that pirates are morons and will not take countermeasures to any kind of weapon TR-12 will field

[10ebbor10]

It'll be more. A railgun slug is a kinetic projectile. You want to transfer kinetic energy, so if the slug is lighter, you have to make it move even faster, requiring an even stronger magnetic field. Meanwhile, we certainly don't have 100% efficiency magnets, so the farther you scale up the field the more energy we waste. Also, interference with other drones or the drone itself is annoying.

We're in deep space. Everything flying around ends up in an orbit, or into the sun. In both cases they'll likely be a danger for a few weeks. Which is problematic, since the convoy is in the middle of the shell.Also, you can't just dodge or intercept a railgun shell. They're made of plastics, which has the one benefit that they're much harder to see.

It's not hard to modify a point defense system to account for both drones and missiles. Fast reaction Laser point defense  (needed to destroy nearby missiles) will be fast and strong enough to intercept the drones. Provided they aren't flying more than a lightsecond out. But if they're that far their railguns are harmless anyway.

Nah. Not at all. Note that a missile is a long range weapon. The farther your PD can shoot, the better it's interception chances are. True, not all systems are as effective. Flak defenses will have significant problem with delay, but a decent laser point defense should be able to bridge the distance quite well. After all, not all missiles can be intercepted by standard missile defenses. (Kinetic missiles, breakup missiles, matroska drone missiles, close detonation missiles)

[Mr.Zero]

Ion Cannon, but anyway. By good ol bullets i mean, just like a regular bullet fired from any gun.

[10ebbor10]

Those don't work in space. For one, recoil throws your craft of balalance(less of a problem with railguns) and more importantly, they produce way to much waste heat, causing weapons to rapidly overheat.

[tryrar]

So I take it the general consensus is at least the drones and that ground-to-orbit cargo hauler(with the one thing we all agree on being the Oculus)? And the only thing holding us up on the offensive drone is weaponry?

OK then, I propose a couple votes to break this deadlock. Since we already have one project finalized(the Oculus), the other comes down to the Hiriam and the Valhalla. So, first we vote on which one. Then, IF the vote comes down to the Hiriam, we can vote between railguns and lasers(to keep it simple; we can branch out to other weaponry later). Sounds like a plan?

BTW, I'll start with voting for Hiriam

[Maxinum McDreich]

I want the Hiram, but Ebbor's put up such a strong case against railguns relying on plastic ammunition (hadn't thought about that, but yeah, railgun ammunition needs to be of good quality to really work) that I think it'd need a rethink.
Lasers won't have brilliant range, as they rely on heat to damage, and well... space kills heat. .
Still, drone's don't need range. Especially as I imagine the Hiram as a deployable swarm that gets close. As such, I would suggest a plasma weapon. Lasers would work too... I'm partial to plasma tho.
Either case, the power system would need to be upped. But, well, put it this way. Where the Oculus puts everything into sensors and ai, the Hiram puts it into weaponry and power system.

I want the drones simply to see if the government/merchants want to take an aggressive approach, or info gathering approach. Heck, we could find the government buys more Oculus than Hiram, but the merchants the opposite (or vice versa). Either case we get a clearer view.
I think next month, the Valkrie, or some kind of atmospheric cargo ship, be developed to aid local economy.

So, vote:
Hiram (but with upped power system and laser/plasma weaponry)

[10ebbor10]

Do note that the Hiram and the oculus are 1 month projects. If we design the oculus now, we get a view of the enemy in the next turn, and we can then adjust our combat drone design for turn 2. The Valkyrie, and all longer projects take multiple turns, and we don't want to bore ourselves. Hence I'd rather always have 1 short term (1 month) and one longterm (multimonth) project in the works rather than doing 2 1 month projects now and then 2 5 month projects.

So yeah:

VAT

[evilcherry]

Space is actually damn hot. Bear in mind vacuum does not conduct heat well, so anything hot remains so for some time.

I, still, want to press for the multiple preliminary design proposal. What they NEED is not important, unless that would put our (i.e. the PC's) life, or the navy chief's life (as our main backer) in jeopardy. What is really important is that there is a market for the design. Such probably ultimately useless designs would work as some kind of gauge of both our capabilities and the interest of buyers.

[10ebbor10]

Depends on where you are. Space has a background temperature of a few Kelvin, the problem is just that you can't easily cool down.

[kaian-a-coel]

voting for the valhalla.

[tryrar]

...Hmmm, 10ebbor makes a good point, so I'm changing my vote to the Valhalla. As for the next turn, I just got a brilliant idea for something offensive:

XSR-1 "Valkyrie" Fighter
Desired Volume: 200m³
Team:Us, Mark, Anton
Time: 2 Months
Description:Basically the smallest ship you can get while still having a fusion plant, engine, weapon, and cockpit, the Valkyrie is designed as a one-man fast escort and antishipping fighter. While not very durable at all(it barely has any armor), this rough hexagonal craft is extremely fast and maneuverable, making it very hard to hit in the first place; and thanks to its micro-fusion plant, it can easily accommodate the power requirements for a single spinal-mounted frigate-class heavy laser. It also boasts good range for a fighter, able to reach from Haven to the TR-12 III astroid belt and back(though this is pushing it a little). While it has some atmo capability(which allows it to be launched from the planet), it is mainly for use in space, as drag and friction can cause unacceptable heat/load stresses at top speed.
Priorities:1 Maneuverability, 1 Laser output, 1 cheaper materials(using ceramics and composites whenever possible), 1 efficient powerplant(reduce size), 1 efficient engine(increased range and overall faster)


And since this would finish about the same time as the Valhalla(IIRC), We could get started on something that'll be the perfect companion:

Name: HYR-1 "Freya" Parasite Corvette
Team:Everyone
Volume:3000m³
Time:4 Months
Description: The Freya is a small-to-medium, roughly elongated diamond-shaped corvette that acts more like a pocket carrier, as its purpose-designed quick-release cradles allow it to carry 5 Valkyries(which make up about one-third its volume!). However, it still allows a fusion plant, engine, support for the crew of the fighters and mothership, as well enough maintenance and fuel for extended missions. This, however, doesn't leave it with very much room at all for weaponry; in fact its only weapons are exactly 2 light laser turrets, one topside, one keel-side(they do, however, between them have full coverage), the lasers are just about powerful enough to be a threat to anything roughly the Freya's size, but anything larger and it would have real trouble penetrating armor., though the rate of fire does allow them to double as point defense weapons The Freya does have some armoring as well as decent agility and speed, making it surprisingly tough.
Priorities:2 Improved Stowage(for the supplies, crew, fighters, and cradles), 1 Maneuverability, 1 composite armoring(increasing armor while not increasing mass too much), 1 AI Targeting(for point-defense mode on turrets)

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Can someone sum up all the proposals, including discussion inspired changes so I can start a poll?

[10ebbor10]

oculus sensor drone (with and without tight beam)
Valhalla atmospheric transport
Mirror drone
Solar sail cargo ship
Hiram railgun drone
Lux laser ship

I think that's everything.

Prototypes might take up too many resources, but we could do computer sims.

I think there were no further changes proposed, except for possibly changing the Hiram's weaponry.