Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheCoolSideofthePIllow]

I just saw another thread that mentions Obsidian Short Swords being just slightly better than wood, and I find this a bit strange.

Yes, Obsidian is a rather weak material; it's like a glass, very brittle, but at the same time, it is very, very sharp. Knives, arrowheads, spear heads, and more were commonly made from obsidian by native American indians, and they are rather effective but would generally only be used a few times before a new one would have to be made.

DF should be the same. Bladed weapons made from obsidian should have a greater chance of cutting more deeply (or having a sort of VORPAL quality like items in D&D giving a greater chance of instantly decapitating a target), but break after only a couple of uses.

[Owlbread]

They used to be as good as steel swords. Also, are you sure a sword like a macahuitl would only last for a few uses? You'd be as well using something more durable.

[XXSockXX]

I don't know, would an obsidian sword not break if applied to metal armor, while wood might just bend and have at least some blunt impact? Obsidian should only be good against unarmored opponents, but against a metal helm even a wooden club should be better.

[TheCoolSideofthePIllow]

I don't know, would an obsidian sword not break if applied to metal armor, while wood might just bend and have at least some blunt impact? Obsidian should only be good against unarmored opponents, but against a metal helm even a wooden club should be better.

Ah yes. Maybe I should have mentioned their sharpness would only help against UNARMORED foes; or at least those not in METAL armors. Obviously, if you tried to hit someone wearing metal with an obsidian blade, the blade would shatter like glass. A cool thing to add in that case would be rock splinters that go flying everywhere and could potentially wound or blind people

Urist McObsidianSwordman slashes his Obsidian Short Sword at Urist McIronMan's upper body!
The blow is deflected by Urist McIronMan's Steel Breastplate!
The Obsidian Short Sword shatters, sending rock splinters flying in all directions!
Urist McObsidianSwordsman is struck in the eye with the obsidian rock splinter, tearing apart the eye, jamming the skull into the brain and tearing apart the brain!
URIST MCOBSDIANSWORDSMAN HAS BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

[hudders]

A macahuitl is more of a club than a sword, so it isn't really a fair comparison.

If you made a sword out of obsidian it would just smash, uselessly against metal armour and, against an un-armoured foe, probably wouldn't last very long as it was steadily chipped and blunted by impacts with bones.

[XXSockXX]

Obviously, if you tried to hit someone wearing metal with an obsidian blade, the blade would shatter like glass. A cool thing to add in that case would be rock splinters that go flying everywhere and could potentially wound or blind people

Right, more stuff that wounds and blinds people would be nice in any case .
The way it's currently in the game, even glass is a bit overpowered, in reality glass serrated large discs should not be as durable either.

[Dwarfotaur]

The oldest part of the Wiki on Obsidian says that Toady One planned exactly that. He wanted them to be very effective but degrade much faster. It seems that it was never implemented though as weapons don't deteriorate (please correct me if I'm wrong).

After players found out how easy it is to make an obsidian farm, I guess he nerfed it otherwise everyone would have free steel equivalent shortswords.

[Tiruin]

Obsidian weapons shatter easily.

Still, there seems to be no durability applied to anything in the current DF-verse, no weapons break or get destroyed in relation to force applied to their current target - just the damage received being mitigated by whatever composition the defender has: skin toughness, worn armor or anything else to soften a blow currently counts.

IMO, brittleness is a NO in the current DF. Sharp, indeed it is. Checking the raws, Obsidian-type weapons generally made have the [EDGE] tag, being sharp in itself

[Urist Da Vinci]

There are several threads with obsidian myths floating around out there (some of which refer to OLD bugs which have been ALREADY FIXED). Please read my bug report on this issue (still valid for 0.34.11).

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5346

The bolts vs armor thread also found that SHEAR_YIELD is important for cutting calculations.

[Nopkar]

A single shard of obsidian freshly hewn is like surgical steel. That stuff is sharp enough to glide through denim just from being knocked off the node while knapping.

So yes, in the real world obsidian is sharper than steel in some instances. However, due to limitations of the game mechanics realism must take a back seat to balance for the time being as obsidian is far too easy to get.

[Owlbread]

I don't see why we have to get caught up in stuff like game mechanics. I think DF is a game where you can be OP quite easily, but it's still fun. Game mechanics don't really apply to DF. Realism over mechanics is what I say.

[Loud Whispers]

I do hope we get the option to repair these things though. Tediousness vs Realism vs Fun.

[Flare]

A macahuitl is more of a club than a sword, so it isn't really a fair comparison.

If you made a sword out of obsidian it would just smash, uselessly against metal armour and, against an un-armoured foe, probably wouldn't last very long as it was steadily chipped and blunted by impacts with bones.

Not to mention impacts with other weapons and with shields while in combat. The width of an obsidian sword has to be quite wide due to it's inability to bend to absorb shock.

An obsidian sword is an incredibly heavy thing compared to its light metal counter parts. Although if you were to put it on a stick it'd be no problem, but then again, a good sharpened and fire-hardened stick is pretty damn good at injuring unarmored people anyway.

Heck, anything is pretty good at injuring unarmored people. What we want in a melee weapon to take into a serious conflict is something that would have some sort of staying power and ability to puncture armor, neither of which obsidian is especially good at doing, unless of course you count smashing large pieces of brittle rock at armored people a useful way of combating them.

[Lord_Phoenix]

A single shard of obsidian freshly hewn is like surgical steel. That stuff is sharp enough to glide through denim just from being knocked off the node while knapping.

So yes, in the real world obsidian is sharper than steel in some instances. However, due to limitations of the game mechanics realism must take a back seat to balance for the time being as obsidian is far too easy to get.

Same with well knapped flint.  They can both get down to monomolecular edges or close to it.  Both dull pretty quickly though.

Also, on the general topic at hand:  Obsidian swords are traditionally not primarily made from obsidian, they are wooden swords with hunks of obsidian embedded along the edge, and are less for slicing and more for rending and ripping through things (difference being that one is a clean cut and the other, well, isn't), so it doesn't really matter if it dulls from its excessively sharp state, so long as it's still jagged enough to rip through flesh and light armor.

[Owlbread]

They sound like great weapons for barbarian races like animal men.