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[Alpha Dwarf]

Every race has these attributes and they are put in use along these exact lines in the init files:

Code: [Select]

[DWARF]
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]              +
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500]                 -
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]             +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:ANALYTICAL_ABILITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]    +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:FOCUS:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]                ++
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:CREATIVITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]            +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:PATIENCE:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]              +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:MEMORY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]                +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:SPATIAL_SENSE:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]        ++
and further there are defined castes, but only for gender and what each gender receives in terms of physiology:

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
Now I could painstakingly mod the game so I can get a kind-of tiered caste with each having a strict set of attribute values, which wold cause my Dwarves to spawn reliably as champions, commoners, blighted, etc., but it would be so much easier on everyone if Toady used his supreme knowledge of just how these numbers work and put it in the vanilla game, which would make user modifications upon racial attributes and skills to be much easier.

Simply dividing castes three ways, STRONG 1500-2500, COMMON 700-1500, and POOR 1-700, etc., would save much time.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why are dwarves in special, "good at everything or bad at everything" categories?
People don't work like that.

[Alpha Dwarf]

You miss the point. Anyone with modding knowledge knows what the system is capable of, and as it is, Dwarves don't come out right.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why not? It sure seems that varied dwarves, without either being good at everything or bad at everything, is what the system should produce. Explain why this isn't so.

[Alpha Dwarf]

(trolling/flaming removed)

[Damiac]

I don't see what any of that has to do with castes.  That's a societal grouping, not just some dwarves are born awesome and some really suck.

What's the point of this? Just to give modders more tools?

Man, Alpha, you seem to like to stir the pot even worse than I do.  I wouldn't call you a troll, because you seem to actually participate in debate, but you are a bit of a... troublemaker.

[Telgin]

I'm not sure I really understand what is being asked for here either?  Caste templates that can be applied to multiple creatures or something?  As far as I can tell the caste system already supports what's being asked for.

And believe me, the game already does randomly generate dwarves who utterly suck or are extremely good (attribute wise anyway).  They're just pretty rare, as you'd expect.

[Alpha Dwarf]

I don't see what any of that has to do with castes.  That's a societal grouping, not just some dwarves are born awesome and some really suck.

What's the point of this? Just to give modders more tools?

Man, Alpha, you seem to like to stir the pot even worse than I do.  I wouldn't call you a troll, because you seem to actually participate in debate, but you are a bit of a... troublemaker.

Perhaps, I was never fully aware what castes cause the game to do. I thought that I could have 10 or hell 20 different statistic sets all for the purpose of that damn migrant coming into view with a personality and physique sheet not resembling something chaotic.

The dwarf all too typically has contradicting stats like flimsy, yet strong, or highly creative, yet totally block-headed. Just check the 'z' screen and see the contradicting stop/go, red/green statistics that would in our real-world physiology be closely tied to accommodate a healthy capability each, strength(power lifting requires a measure of endurance) being had with a modicum of endurance.

[Damiac]

I'll agree with you there.  I've had too many overall enormous, yet extremely skinny, weak, and short dwarves.  Like, how the hell is he enormous?

So it'd be nice if those things went together somehow.  I know if that has anything to do with castes, but I see what you're getting at now.

[Orange Wizard]

Hmm, just read your profile. Let us spark some bluntness together, "sane by local standards," you mean local as in your own home? L-O-L I'll actually believe it. But camaaraderaderally, the asspies I've met really don't give a FUCK about shit talk, and they certainly don't give a fuck about me calling them asspies. Now, I imagine I'm twisting nipples, for certain folk who probably aren't EVEN asspies, but of course I must seem like an enemy now, being unsympathetic or some shit. My best Nerd friend throughout all highschool had one intense asspie little brother. Motherfucker couldn't put nintendo down for a minute. Well, that's a derail, of my own thread, but salutation to you GWD. Post soon.

The mood whiplash is painful.

As to the caste system, I think we need Init Options to come to the rescue. Basically, if Toady were to implement these good-at-some-things-bad-at-others dwarves, I think he ought to add an init option so we can personally decide whether we want it or not.
I don't like it, myself. I prefer my randomly-generated, normal dwarves. Of course, I see the appeal, but I just don't like it.

[Eagle_eye]

Or just use the existing caste system? Why should the base game be modified to do something that can easily be handled by mods if not everyone wants it?

[weenog]

Have you considered that dwarves' profiles only show them being good at some things and bad at others because only the traits in which they deviate from average are worth mentioning?

[GreatWyrmGold]

I don't see what any of that has to do with castes.  That's a societal grouping, not just some dwarves are born awesome and some really suck.

What's the point of this? Just to give modders more tools?

In DF raws, castes are subgroups of a species, such as genders. He's suggesting to use them in an unrealistic manner.

Perhaps, I was never fully aware what castes cause the game to do. I thought that I could have 10 or hell 20 different statistic sets all for the purpose of that damn migrant coming into view with a personality and physique sheet not resembling something chaotic.

The dwarf all too typically has contradicting stats like flimsy, yet strong, or highly creative, yet totally block-headed. Just check the 'z' screen and see the contradicting stop/go, red/green statistics that would in our real-world physiology be closely tied to accommodate a healthy capability each, strength(power lifting requires a measure of endurance) being had with a modicum of endurance.

How are those chaotic? It's entirely possible to have someone who is strong but can't take a punch, or someone who is creative but book-dumb.
And about the trolling: I'm sane by Bay12 standards (you must be new here), and it's GWG. GreatWyrmGold to you.

Have you considered that dwarves' profiles only show them being good at some things and bad at others because only the traits in which they deviate from average are worth mentioning?

And here I thought that was obvious.

[weenog]

Have you considered that dwarves' profiles only show them being good at some things and bad at others because only the traits in which they deviate from average are worth mentioning?

And here I thought that was obvious.

I work in customer service.  My standards for obvious have fallen, hard.

No you stupid fuck, you can't treat a 9-topping combination as a single pizza topping for purposes of a special deal, just because the combination's name is a single word.  Full price for you.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Have you considered that dwarves' profiles only show them being good at some things and bad at others because only the traits in which they deviate from average are worth mentioning?

And here I thought that was obvious.

I work in customer service.  My standards for obvious have fallen, hard.

No you stupid fuck, you can't treat a 9-topping combination as a single pizza topping for purposes of a special deal, just because the combination's name is a single word.  Full price for you.

Sorry to hear that.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to sit in a corner and think of a reason to have faith in humanity.