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[MiamiBryce]

I have seen, over the of the years of being a member of this forum, a number of raw modding utility attempts.  I was wondering, are there any raw modding tools you use, what are they, and what utility do you get from them.  Conversely what have you tried out but did not consequently use and why?  Is there anything you really wish existed, but doesn't?

Thanks!

[TheZoomZoll]

Ever heard of DFHack?The possibilities are boundless..Somewhat...
Also there is DFusion which is fine enough.

What I would want?Something that can do anything somebody would think of:"Oh hey,I want something that makes cows grow from flowers!"
"I want a tree that grows cows that when milked give you hot chocolate!"

Bay 12 in a nutshell^

[Putnam]

I think he means raw editing utilities.

I use notepad++ with a personally-edited version of the raw syntax highlighter. It's not finished, though, so I'm not releasing it too soon.

I tried raw explorer and didn't use it because it doesn't have enough copy+paste. I tried Dwarf Fortress Mod Manager and don't use it because... it uses a single file instead of a full thing. But it does give great compatibility, so I should probably use it more often.

[i2amroy]

Right now the only one that I'm using is DFLang, since generating languages without it is extremely tedious.

I've also used Raw Explorer and think that it would be a wonderful tool for new modders and also to edit certain things (such as graphics or workshops) but for the most part it is still a little faster and easier to edit things by hand right now.

[TheZoomZoll]

I think he means raw editing utilities.

Hmm...DFHack and DFusion do have commands that edit raws..but uhh..
Editing text files?
DFLang because it is very cool.
I also have a custom program that whenever you press a selected combination it would type in lines that you either forgot how to use or just are too lazy to type.Lets say you wanted a new adventurer avaiable to play in adventure mode?Pressing the right combination would type in this:
[ENTITY:ENTITY_(custom)]
   [ADVENTURE_TIER:(custom)]
   [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE]
   [CREATURE:(custom)]
   [TRANSLATION:(custom)]

[Putnam]

Right now the only one that I'm using is DFLang, since generating languages without it is extremely tedious.

I've also used Raw Explorer and think that it would be a wonderful tool for new modders and also to edit certain things (such as graphics or workshops) but for the most part it is still a little faster and easier to edit things by hand right now.

Oh, yeah, DFLang, too.

[jaxy15]

I use DFLang, that one workshop workshop thing cause I have no idea how to modify the appearance of a workshop and notepad++.

[Replica]

I've always rolled with the classic notepad that comes with any installation of windows, and have done so since the days of STALKER SoC modding.
Real eyesore to create and modify longer raw files, but it's simple, precise and the errors that follow can only be blamed on yourself, so you don't get the same frustrating issues of having something work incorrectly because the program you used decided to crap out on you when putting the whole thing together.

As for what I wish existed...
I think many of us would agree on more raw tags and freedom to change the game code.
Our community is incredibly creative and the ingenuity of some modders knows absolutely no bounds, there are things some of the more experienced modders do that I didn't even think were possible.
But we are still limited by what can actually be changed, there is much in DF that is hardcodded and that no amount of conventional modding can change.
Perhaps one day Toady will release versions that open up more of DF to the modding community, or maybe one user will crack the codes and release a guide that lets others change it to their liking.

[Putnam]

Perhaps one day Toady will release versions that open up more of DF to the modding community, or maybe one user will crack the codes and release a guide that lets others change it to their liking.

Out of respect for Toady, I'd rather the latter never happen.

As for the former, here's a related quote:

Speaking of interactions, as a modder, are there going to be any expansions of old modding with this release? More tokens for CE_ADD_TAG, more syndrome types, more usage hints, more counter triggers, anything like that? Or is it just a straight shot to expansion and activation of the world?

I think it has been a reasonably straight shot, but there has been a lot added to the raws of course.  For new interaction stuff, there's the vampire senses, and maybe various other things.  In general between expanding the skeleton of the game and bug-fixing, there's the idea of fleshing things out, which for us usually means lots of feature expansion and interconnections of old features of the sort you are talking about, and I don't think we've done much of that over the last many months.  And there probably won't be a lot of it up through this release since we've already bitten off a large chunk.  I'm not sure when I'll get around to more of that.  We'll be at an interesting spot after this release, with any number of directions to go, and we still need to decide which one or ones we'll choose.

[MiamiBryce]

I tried raw explorer and didn't use it because it doesn't have enough copy+paste. I tried Dwarf Fortress Mod Manager and don't use it because... it uses a single file instead of a full thing. But it does give great compatibility, so I should probably use it more often.

What, exactly, would you like more copy/paste for in Raw Explorer?  Do you mean individual fields (Copy NAME, paste into NAME_PLURAL) or entire objects (copy PLANT, paste PLANT)?  If it's one or two simple things that keep you from using it I'm sure BradUffner would love to hear about it.

I've also used Raw Explorer and think that it would be a wonderful tool for new modders and also to edit certain things (such as graphics or workshops) but for the most part it is still a little faster and easier to edit things by hand right now.

When you say "faster to edit things by hand" can you give specific instances of things you would like to do that you ended up leaving Raw Explorer and going back to notepad for?.

[Lycaeon]

I use notepad++...it's much better than default notepad while retaining the simplicity of basic raw editing. Familiarity with the base raws is always a plus even when using a utility, as when something goes wrong in many cases you need to go straight to the base raws anyway.

Of course, some parts, like the languages, really can't be edited well without a utility.

[Putnam]

I can't use anything but notepad++ because I use regular expressions so constantly.

[i2amroy]

I've also used Raw Explorer and think that it would be a wonderful tool for new modders and also to edit certain things (such as graphics or workshops) but for the most part it is still a little faster and easier to edit things by hand right now.

When you say "faster to edit things by hand" can you give specific instances of things you would like to do that you ended up leaving Raw Explorer and going back to notepad for?.

(Fixed your quote for you).

Well one big reason is really that I'm doing most of my raw editing on a mac, so it saves me from having to boot up wine constantly.

In addressing features though what it really lacks is three things:
1)Copy paste abilities that are easily used. Right now it can sometimes get a little difficult If I want to copy a block of code (say some 10 and a half tokens) from one creature and quickly drop it into several others in the raw explorer. In text edit or notepad it is a fairly simple process.
2)It still has trouble on dealing with a few kinds of tokens IIRC, and it's easier for me to do just a direct edit for those things with text edit/notepad then through the raw editor.
3)This is really the most serious reason why, and that it is the way that the raw explorer exports raws. For example a set of raws output from the raw explorer might look like this:

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:SHEEP]
[DESCRIPTION:A medium-sized herding animal.  It is prized for its thick wool coat.]
[NAME:sheep:sheep:sheep]
[CHILD:1]
[GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:lamb:lambs]
[CREATURE_TILE:'s']
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[PETVALUE:100]
[PREFSTRING:tendency to flock]
[PREFSTRING:wool]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC]
[BENIGN]
[MEANDERER]
[PET]
[GRAZER:1200]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[BODY:QUADRUPED_HOOF:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:TONGUE:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[BODY:QUADRUPED_HOOF:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:TONGUE:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE:2HEAD_HORN]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[NATURAL]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HOOF:HOOF_TEMPLATE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HORN:HORN_TEMPLATE]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:HAIR]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:wool]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:wool]
[YARN]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HOOF:HOOF_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HORN:HORN_TEMPLATE]
[SELECT_TISSUE:HAIR]
[TISSUE_NAME:wool:NP]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:HAIR]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
 [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
[TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HAIR:BY_CATEGORY:ALL]
[TL_RELATIVE_THICKNESS:10]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[HAS_NERVES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:5000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:25000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:50000]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:HOOF_FRONT]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:HOOF_REAR]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[SELECT_CASTE:MALE]
[ATTACK:HGORE:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:HORN]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:gore:gores]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[DIURNAL]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
[SWIMS_INNATE]
[SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[MUNDANE]
[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE]
[CASTE_NAME:ewe:ewes:ewe]
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILK:MILK_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:frozen sheep's milk]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen sheep's milk]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:sheep's milk]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:sheep's milk]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling sheep's milk]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling sheep's milk]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILKABLE:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:MILK:20000]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:CHEESE:CREATURE_CHEESE_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME:SOLID:sheep cheese]
[STATE_ADJ:SOLID:sheep cheese]
[STATE_NAME:SOLID_POWDER:sheep cheese powder]
[STATE_ADJ:SOLID_POWDER:sheep cheese powder]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:melted sheep cheese]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:melted sheep cheese]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling sheep cheese]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling sheep cheese]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[SELECT_CASTE:MALE]
[CASTE_NAME:ram:rams:ram]
[MALE]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:WHITE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:wool:SINGULAR]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:wool:SINGULAR]
[APP_MOD_RATE:1:DAILY:0:300:0:0:NO_END]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:10:50:100:150:200:300]
[SHEARABLE_TISSUE_LAYER:LENGTH:300]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:PINK:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:PUPIL_EYE_AMBER:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]My raws for sheep look like this:

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:SHEEP]
========= Naming ========================================================================
[NAME:sheep:sheep:sheep]
[PREFSTRING:tendency to flock]
[PREFSTRING:wool]
========= Representation ================================================================
[CREATURE_TILE:'s'][COLOR:7:0:1]
========= Biomes and population information =============================================
[BENIGN]
[DIURNAL]
[MUNDANE]

[LARGE_ROAMING]
========= Castes ========================================================================
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE_NAME:ewe:ewes:ewe]
[CHILD_NAME:lamb:lambs]
[DESCRIPTION:A medium-sized herding animal.  It is prized for its thick wool coat.]
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[CASTE_NAME:ram:rams:ram]
[CHILD_NAME:lamb:lambs]
[DESCRIPTION:A medium-sized herding animal.  It is prized for its thick wool coat.]
========= Abilities and disabilities ====================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[PET][PETVALUE:100]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC]

[GRAZER:1200]

[NATURAL]

[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILK:MILK_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:frozen sheep's milk]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen sheep's milk]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:sheep's milk]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:sheep's milk]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling sheep's milk]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling sheep's milk]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:CHEESE:CREATURE_CHEESE_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME:SOLID:sheep cheese]
[STATE_ADJ:SOLID:sheep cheese]
[STATE_NAME:SOLID_POWDER:sheep cheese powder]
[STATE_ADJ:SOLID_POWDER:sheep cheese powder]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:melted sheep cheese]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:melted sheep cheese]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling sheep cheese]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling sheep cheese]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILKABLE:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:MILK:20000]
========= Body ==========================================================================
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[BODY:QUADRUPED_HOOF:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:TONGUE:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[BODY:QUADRUPED_HOOF:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:TONGUE:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE:2HEAD_HORN]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
========= Body materials ================================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:MAMMAL_MATERIALS]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:HOOF_MATS]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:HORN_MATS]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:WOOL_HAIR]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]

[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:SINEW_BLOOD_PUS]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]

[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]

[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:HEART_THROAT_ARTERIES_SKN]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]

[HAS_NERVES]
========= Syndromes and curses relation =================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
========= Attributes and skills =========================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
========= Growth and procreation ========================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:5000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:25000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:50000]

[MAXAGE:10:20]

[CHILD:1]

[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
========= Attacks and interactions ======================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:FRONT_HOOF_KICK_MAIN]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:REAR_HOOF_KICK_MAIN]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:TOOTH_BITE_SECOND]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
[SELECT_CASTE:MALE]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:HORN_GORE_MAIN]
========= Body appearance modifiers =====================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_BODY_SIZING]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
========= Personality ===================================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[MEANDERER]
========= Appearance ====================================================================
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:PINK:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:PUPIL_EYE_AMBER:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:WHITE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:wool:SINGULAR]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:SHEARABLE_WOOL]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
Now they aren't quite the same raws since my version uses creature variations to shorten the raws and the other one doesn't but you get the idea. The fact that I am able to indent certain lines, group certain bunches of code together and provide easily readable titles for each section within the creature means that my raws will be vastly more readable then ones put out by the raw explorer, especially for a person who doesn't have access to the raw explorer program.

Not that raw explorer is a bad program mind you, and I think it is especially useful at preventing learner mistakes like putting material tokens on a creature or getting the arguments wrong in a reaction, but right now it is still a little bit lacking for much of the more advanced modding (which is probably just an amount of time in development issue, as it hasn't had near as long as say DFHack or Dwarf Therapist).