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[Lazerlatté]

Are whips really that good? People say they smash skulls like nothing else, but is it really that easy to actually hit someone in the head? Are they good for anything else besides blowing people's heads apart...?

[MrWillsauce]

From what I understand, whips more or less completely disregard armor because their surface area is ridiculously small. Or something. From experience, whips have been able to break my adventurers' limbs and destroy their brains through metal armor very effectively. I don't use them myself because I always play dwarves.

[Findulidas]

Whips are good at some creatures, mainly creatures with full armor of a good material or creatures made of really hard materials like bronze colossuses. Otherwise a longsword or morningstar tends to actually kill things faster for me and if you get to legendary on a weapon then you can kill most things with it regardless.

[pisskop]

Whips are God weapons in this current version.  The conclusion is that either they are some kind of uber-mace or chain-sword.

The problem (if its just a castlevania-style whip) is that the whole weight of the weapon is used when calculating force; instead of just the tip or the sriking surface.

If its a chain sword than it doesn't get stuck in armour nearly as much as I'd expect (or bone either).

If it is just a whip than its at mach speeds, despite being too heavy to expect it to do so (using the weight of the whip).

Another theory is the whip could cause a shockwave that scables the meaty parts, but I'm rather doubtful this is what Toady intends as flesh is carved away with every strike.

Just musing, I suppose, but for the time being whips will slice through everything

[dermal_plating]

So the heaviest whip is the best? Sharpness is not relevant? Not sure what material is the heaviest tbh. Would like to do some !!SCIENCE!! with this, assuming it hasn't already been done. Here's a comparison from the wiki showing a whip and a maul. Maybe someone could explain using this data why the whip is so deadly.

Type  Size  Attack  Attack type  Contact Area  Penetration  Velocity  Skill Used      Used by       Hands Used 
    Whip  100  Lash       Blunt               1                    (10)           5.0x         Whip     Goblin, Human     Singlegrasp 
     Maul  1300  Bash     Blunt             100                (6000)         2.0x      Hammer   Goblin, Human     Multigrasp

[MrWillsauce]

So the heaviest whip is the best? Sharpness is not relevant? Not sure what material is the heaviest tbh. Would like to do some !!SCIENCE!! with this, assuming it hasn't already been done. Here's a comparison from the wiki showing a whip and a maul. Maybe someone could explain using this data why the whip is so deadly.

Type  Size  Attack  Attack type  Contact Area  Penetration  Velocity  Skill Used      Used by       Hands Used 
    Whip  100  Lash       Blunt               1                    (10)           5.0x         Whip     Goblin, Human     Singlegrasp 
     Maul  1300  Bash     Blunt             100                (6000)         2.0x      Hammer   Goblin, Human     Multigrasp

Heavier=better for whips. Silver is the heaviest non-artifact weapon material, so silver whips are the best and adamantine whips would be the worst.

[nanomage]

So the heaviest whip is the best? Sharpness is not relevant? Not sure what material is the heaviest tbh. Would like to do some !!SCIENCE!! with this, assuming it hasn't already been done. Here's a comparison from the wiki showing a whip and a maul. Maybe someone could explain using this data why the whip is so deadly.

Type  Size  Attack  Attack type  Contact Area  Penetration  Velocity  Skill Used      Used by       Hands Used 
    Whip  100  Lash       Blunt               1                    (10)           5.0x         Whip     Goblin, Human     Singlegrasp 
     Maul  1300  Bash     Blunt             100                (6000)         2.0x      Hammer   Goblin, Human     Multigrasp

It's contact area, size and velocity that matter. to roughly estimate a blunt weapon's performance, divide the size by the contact area and multiply by the velocity modifier. Here you go, it's 500 for whip and 26 for maul, so the whip is roughly 20 times better.
The modeling problem, as you see, is that whips don't fit well into that (size*velocity/area) thing.

[eharper256]

If it is just a whip than its at mach speeds, despite being too heavy to expect it to do so (using the weight of the whip).

A RealLife TM whip DOES in fact break the sound barrier in the hands of talented user. Its what causes that shockwave-esq whiplash noise.

But for DF, the problem is indeed that it applies the entire weight to the tip, which a whip does not do. A metal whip is also very strange and would be very hard to swing around.

To balance them they ideally need a contact area of about 15-30 (the tip will rake across the flesh after all, its not hitting a nanomolecular point), and probably made into slash weapons that can only be made out of leather.

[dermal_plating]

So the heaviest whip is the best? Sharpness is not relevant? Not sure what material is the heaviest tbh. Would like to do some !!SCIENCE!! with this, assuming it hasn't already been done. Here's a comparison from the wiki showing a whip and a maul. Maybe someone could explain using this data why the whip is so deadly.

Type  Size  Attack  Attack type  Contact Area  Penetration  Velocity  Skill Used      Used by       Hands Used 
    Whip  100  Lash       Blunt               1                    (10)           5.0x         Whip     Goblin, Human     Singlegrasp 
     Maul  1300  Bash     Blunt             100                (6000)         2.0x      Hammer   Goblin, Human     Multigrasp

It's contact area, size and velocity that matter. to roughly estimate a blunt weapon's performance, divide the size by the contact area and multiply by the velocity modifier. Here you go, it's 500 for whip and 26 for maul, so the whip is roughly 20 times better.
The modeling problem, as you see, is that whips don't fit well into that (size*velocity/area) thing.

Thanks for the explanation. Currently running a legendary human lasher with a default quality silver whip. So far I'm not that impressed, a lot of bone chipping and not a lot of breakages. I will admit when its hit the head it does smash the brain apart pretty frequently. Will dfhack the quality up to masterwork and give it another shot,

[Tsuchigumo550]

I always thought of metal whips having metal-covered tips.