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[GlyphGryph]

Pretty much everything of real value is a luxury (which is in it's most straightforward definition, simply something that is not essential and is conducive to happiness). They don't even need to be expensive. There are symbolic luxuries (and symbols are important to people) like photos and trophies, happiness based luxuries like comfortable chairs, aesthetic based luxuries like posters and paintings.

I don't think there's anything wrong with these things.

If we're just talking about luxuries as things that are expensive, a great many luxuries are so because of their quality - for example, expensive cars and enormous homes with nice pools and good views.

I don't think there's anything wrong with those, either.

Finally, there are the luxuries purchased to communicate. A way of establishing status and group membership. As THE traditional human past-time, and the thing that gives a huge portion of the population a sense of meaning in their life, I can't really decry this motivation, even if "buying especially expensive shit" can be argued to not be the best way to go about it. But hell, this is the huge driver for a tremendous amount of art, and also leads to huge grants to schools and research facilities in exchange for a name on a wall, so you know what? I don't think there's much wrong with this one either.

Luxuries are basically the material half of "things that make life worth living" - the other half is our relationships, and since the luxuries are a huge player in that area as well.

So... yeah, I'm not seeing what the problem is, if people are buying stuff they want that makes them happy in some way.

[sneakey pete]

Most of the money from exotic cars goes to the people who make em..
(generally there's more physical labor than robotics involved in making them, I mean)

[Loud Whispers]

Meat would become expensive, you'd no longer be able to drive a car, in winter you wear warm clothes indoors, farmers go out of business because of the reduction in subsidies, etc.

In some countries this would literally kill people. Telling Japan to forgo fish for example, or saying everyone up North should wear warm clothes indoors for winter (dead, dead, dead), cars are the only mode of fast transport for some people and farming well, it's farming. Food. Luxuries are the thing in question, not essentials. All meat diets as opposed to balanced diets for example. One should not be scrapped because the other is at fault.

[Korbac]

Muz, is it weird that we have different ideas of "ridiculous" luxuries? Personally, I think "Space Tourism", is, at this stage, ridiculous.

Also multiple exotic cars (if you drive them) and Villas with Bowling Alleys (if you use them) fit into category one, I think - these will, at least sometimes, make you happy. I can get entirely behind the Golden Toilet Seat and Platinum Sword though - these a basically bank - account dickwaving devices and only bring their owner any benefits in the jealousy they siphon from less fortunate people.

[LordBucket]

1/4 of the word uses 3/4 of the world's resources.

Well, how on earth do you quantify that?

Easiest is GDP, wikipedia says 65% of GDP belongs to MDCs

Resources are not the same as production.  Basically all you're saying here is that developed countries produce more goods than undeveloped countries...which they then use. Which, aside from being obvious, doesn't really support the spirit of the position being asserted here.

Imagine if you and I are both neighbors, and we each own one acre of land with 10 apple trees. I collect apples from 8 of my trees, cut down two and build a house out of the wood, then plant 4 more apples trees. And you collect apples from two trees and sleep under a tree. I "produced" more, and I "used" more. But it would be very strange to look at this and say that I "used up" more of the available resources. Next season there will be more apples, and in a few years I'll have more apples trees than you do. That fact that I "used" more isn't a problem.

There are very few resources that aren't replenishable. Water, air, food, wood...these things are all easily replenishable. With only a few exceptions, metals are not in particularly short supply. Roughly 30% of the volume of planet earth is composed of iron, for example. Titanium and aluminum are about 1% each. That's approximately 60,000,000,000,000,000,000 metric tons each, and metals are recyclable. It's silly to think we're in danger of running out. There are some relatively scarcer materials, but civilization would not come to and end if we ran out of yttrium, for example.

Running out of things like coal or gasoline would just mean that we'd need to more solar/geothermal/wind/etc. There's no real problem here.

Finally, those of you complaining about the "horrible, evil rich people" who are "wasting resources" on luxury goods, gold, diamonds, etc...what exactly are you even complaining about? If we somehow magically ran out of gold, do you seriously think that would be a problem? Yes, there are some industrial uses for these things. Spacecraft use gold foil, some drills use diamond, etc. But it's not like space travel or industrial drilling is going to just stop for lack of materials because people used up all the gold and diamonds making watches.

I'm not seeing what the problem is

Agreed. I don't see a problem.

[Scoops Novel]

It's how the resources are spread rather then the amount of them. Sure, there may be plenty more where that came from, but if those who need them can't acquire them and you have a vast surplus it's hard not be angry.

[ChairmanPoo]

Let me share something tangentially related. It's an epiphany I had recently. The vast majority of "standing" people you meet (Think doctors, hospital heads, bank office managers, engineers) don't go beyond a rather modest upper-middle class. Sure, they might have two cars and a flat in the beach (with a mortgage over it), but that's about it. There's not a huge gap between these people and blue collar workers. Certainly not to the extent that there is between the real high ups  and the rest of the world. And I don't think there's any shame or insolidarity in being middle class or upper middle class, because what it actually means is that you have a moderatedly acceptable standard of living, instead of having to work in a sweatshop for a bowl of rice. When push comes to shove you're more likely to fall on the side of the have-nots than on the side of the wealthy fudges. Also, because of this same thing, it's a good idea to remember this: http://temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/

[Loud Whispers]

I don't see a problem.

Meeting the Poor’s Basic Needs

As many as 2.8 billion people on the planet struggle to survive on less than $2 a day, and more than one billion people lack reasonable access to safe drinking water.
The U.N. reports that 825 million people are still undernourished; the average person in the industrial world took in 10 percent more calories daily in 1961 than the average person in the developing world consumes today.

The U.S. Consumer

The United States, with less than 5 % of the global population, uses about a quarter of the world’s fossil fuel resources—burning up nearly 25 % of the coal, 26 % of the oil, and 27 % of the world’s natural gas.
As of 2003, the U.S. had more private cars than licensed drivers, and gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles were among the best-selling vehicles.
New houses in the U.S. were 38 % bigger in 2002 than in 1975, despite having fewer people per household on average.

[ChairmanPoo]

I wonder where do these people think they're leading the western world. Surely they don't really expect the dispossessed to simply find a ditch to lie down and die, right?

[DarkWolfXV]

I dont see a problem either. Rich people can buy whatever the fuck they want, its THEIR money, not your money, so THEY can buy/do whatever they want with it. I bet that if you were awfully rich(So awfully that you could afford rooms of gold) you would probably do similiar. I dont know why people have problem with this, for example, someone has 4k$ guitar, because they want to and have money, someone has 4 million $ car, because they want and have money, so what-the-fuck-is-the-problem. I come from a poor country and i dont really see a problem. Really.

[kaijyuu]

I wonder where do these people think they're leading the western world. Surely they don't really expect the dispossessed to simply find a ditch to lie down and die, right?

It's their lot in life for being so lazy!

(note: sarcasm)

I dont see a problem either. Rich people can buy whatever the fuck they want, its THEIR money, not your money, so THEY can buy/do whatever they want with it. I bet that if you were awfully rich(So awfully that you could afford rooms of gold) you would probably do similiar. I dont know why people have problem with this, for example, someone has 4k$ guitar, because they want to and have money, someone has 4 million $ car, because they want and have money, so what-the-fuck-is-the-problem. I come from a poor country and i dont really see a problem. Really.

Money (and property, etc) isn't a right. Nor is it even a privilege. It's a tool. And when tools are mismanaged, they need to be moved to other's hands.

[GlyphGryph]

Stuff

I'm honestly not seeing the relation as to why consumption is a problem. You're saying, essentially "The rest of the world is miserable, so we should stop making and consuming things"?

Considering how much of our stuff is made overseas, it's even worse that that, though - you seem to be saying we should stop providing these people with jobs and income?

I've honestly got no idea how any of that is a problem with the consumption in the first world.

[DarkWolfXV]

I dont see a problem either. Rich people can buy whatever the fuck they want, its THEIR money, not your money, so THEY can buy/do whatever they want with it. I bet that if you were awfully rich(So awfully that you could afford rooms of gold) you would probably do similiar. I dont know why people have problem with this, for example, someone has 4k$ guitar, because they want to and have money, someone has 4 million $ car, because they want and have money, so what-the-fuck-is-the-problem. I come from a poor country and i dont really see a problem. Really.

Money (and property, etc) isn't a right. Nor is it even a privilege. It's a tool. And when tools are mismanaged, they need to be moved to other's hands.

To me, it is a right, or privilege, most people got their money by hard work, i couldn't imagine if some guys came to my house and told me to give half of my money away because im "too rich". You cant take away money from people just "because poor need it". Its sad but its their problem, not yours, if you have good will you can give it to the poor, but you dont have to, because money is YOURS, and it belongs to YOU.

[Loud Whispers]

There are very few resources that aren't replenishable. Water, air, food, wood...these things are all easily replenishable.

When you fuck up our entire planet's biosphere it will kill us all. These things are not easily replenishable. Increase food yields with fertilizers you run the risk of screwing your water up. Woods are disappearing at an alarming rate due to entirely man made actions and we honestly needn't point out climate change for air.

Running out of things like coal or gasoline would just mean that we'd need to more solar/geothermal/wind/etc. There's no real problem here.

/global warming/energy crisis/no problem/

Finally, those of you complaining about the "horrible, evil rich people" who are "wasting resources" on luxury goods, gold, diamonds, etc...what exactly are you even complaining about?

Terrible exploitation, bad morals and horrendous resource distribution?

Yes, there are some industrial uses for these things. Spacecraft use gold foil, some drills use diamond, etc. But it's not like space travel or industrial drilling is going to just stop for lack of materials because people used up all the gold and diamonds making watches.

I hope you seriously aren't advocating rampant consumerism for the purpose of shiny watches.

I don't care about who wants to show off their social status in their monkey's arenas or whatever. But when you are contributing to the entropy of your species whilst throwing your head under the sand when it comes to dealing with the consequences, then there's a problem.

I dont see a problem either. Rich people can buy whatever the fuck they want, its THEIR money, not your money, so THEY can buy/do whatever they want with it.

Leading to higher demand for frivolities which damage countries, our planet and our species. Already highlighting the fact that with terrible resource distribution, the poor stay poor and the fat get fatter.

I'm honestly not seeing the relation as to why consumption is a problem. You're saying, essentially "The rest of the world is miserable, so we should stop making and consuming things"?

No. What I'm saying are my;

Thoughts on everyday "luxury" goods, and their waste of resources.

In a literal sense when countries like the UK and USA are facing obesity problems whilst others are starving, or on the broader scale. Industry and pollution, pollution and our planet. Our only planet.

Well, what could ever be wrong with that?

Considering how much of our stuff is made overseas, it's even worse that that, though - you seem to be saying we should stop providing these people with jobs and income?

Is that what I appear to be saying? Because I appear to be saying that wasting resources and terrible resource distribution is wrong, and privileged factory workers should be happy for their $2 jobs. After all, we wouldn't want to deprive them of income now would we?

You cant take away money from people just "because poor need it". Its sad but its their problem, not yours, if you have good will you can give it to the poor, but you dont have to, because money is YOURS, and it belongs to YOU.

Yeah screw the starving I need more shiny watches! My money! All mine! FLEE PEASANTS!

[DarkWolfXV]

You cant take away money from people just "because poor need it". Its sad but its their problem, not yours, if you have good will you can give it to the poor, but you dont have to, because money is YOURS, and it belongs to YOU.

Yeah screw the starving I need more shiny watches! My money! All mine! FLEE PEASANTS!

I probably sound like douche, but you wouldn't be happy if people in black suits came and seized half of your property "for the poor".