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[Urist Imiknorris]

Make him mutually exclusive with a vig.

Shitty idea. If someone gets vigged and another gets abducted, the town can relax because they're definitely not an OH.

[Mephansteras]

I have to disagree. Tiruin didn't win, but that's as much a problem with the lack of activity as anything else. Quite frankly, there are almost no situations where two dopps, with one being a guard, aren't going to win when the game gets down to 3. An Exterminator with his Shield left at that point would do it, but little else. If the town had played better he'd have had a better shot, although of course it was never going to be guaranteed.

As for the kill...the part of the point of the OH is to make an abduction that the Exterminator can actually use Combat Camo to look like. If we'd had an Exterminator disguising his kills as an OH, the flavor would have been exactly the same.

Overall I think it still has potential and I'd need to see it in a game with better activity to really make a decision on it. The OH has two advantages over an Exterminator. One, Abductions can't be Guarded against, making his Kills pretty much guaranteed unless someone role-blocks him. Two, the Omni kill at the end is very powerful. It gets rid of most or all of the remaining players, and like the Exterminator the Organ Harvester wins if it gets down to a 1-1 standoff (although if we somehow had a 1-1 OH vs Exty the Exty would win). Tiruin only lost because he was the only target for the dopps to kill. If he and Pandarsenic had pushed for a no-lynch/tie, he could have actually won.

[Toaster]

I think it's a sideways buff to Combat Camo, which isn't a bad thing.  Only Mediums being able to tell the difference between a camo Exty and a OH is a nice side effect too.

[webadict]

I think it's a sideways buff to Combat Camo, which isn't a bad thing.  Only Mediums being able to tell the difference between a camo Exty and a OH is a nice side effect too.

Which failed anyway, given that, you know, the dead weren't talking.

[Bookthras]

I think it's a sideways buff to Combat Camo, which isn't a bad thing.  Only Mediums being able to tell the difference between a camo Exty and a OH is a nice side effect too.

Which failed anyway, given that, you know, the dead weren't talking.

Dude, the dead were talking more than the thread. And Tiruin was outed as the Organ Harvester by Capt.Ford as soon as he arrived on deadchat, which would have given him to the dopps had not Dariush been abducted at exactly the same time (or to the town had there been a town medium).

Overall, Tiruin played rather well and almost had a deserving victory, but the inactivity was just... shameful. At least it's virtually guaranteed that the next Paranormal will be better.

[Leafsnail]

There really shouldn't have been a lynch day four - it was a situation where nobody except the dopps could benefit from one (although obviously I'm not going to criticize the dopps for taking their chance).  Pandarsenic and Tiruin should've voted NL.

[Captain Ford]

The lack of activity was disappointing, but I still got a lot out of this game.

The OH seems balanced enough to me, especially after Meph laid it out for us.

Oh, and I loved the end flavor. Worth the wait! 

[ToonyMan]

There really shouldn't have been a lynch day four - it was a situation where nobody except the dopps could benefit from one (although obviously I'm not going to criticize the dopps for taking their chance).  Pandarsenic and Tiruin should've voted NL.

Pandersenic not posting didn't allow that though.  I'm only confused why Tiruin kidnapped the almost confirmed townie (ZU).

[Leafsnail]

He did post a couple of times, and that would be enough to vote "no lynch" in.

[webadict]

There really shouldn't have been a lynch day four - it was a situation where nobody except the dopps could benefit from one (although obviously I'm not going to criticize the dopps for taking their chance).  Pandarsenic and Tiruin should've voted NL.

Pandersenic not posting didn't allow that though.  I'm only confused why Tiruin kidnapped the almost confirmed townie (ZU).

I agree. I kept telling everyone ZU was confirmed.

Also, Kookclaiming is still considered a towntell. Until there becomes no reason to claim it, it will be considered a towntell. There's no downside to claiming it.

[Leafsnail]

Scum should start claiming it.

[Urist Imiknorris]

One did.

[webadict]

Scum should start claiming it.

I know. I want that to continue. As it stands, millerclaims are exceeding town tells. The more scum that start claiming, the less townlike it will be. I would've claimed it myself, but I like talking about how much of a towntell it is.

Which it is. Don't get me wrong. I believe something like... 95% of miller claims are town. But ONLY if they are for mafia. Third party miller claims are like... 66% third party.

Just a little fyi, claiming miller in almost any game is a sure fire way to be townlike.

[Bookthras]

Scum should start claiming it.

I know. I want that to continue. As it stands, millerclaims are exceeding town tells.

Dude, now it feels like you're trolling me. No, claiming miller is not a towntell or a scumtell. It's a null tell. Just because some people acted in so-and-so manner last game does not mean they will do the same this game. Previous claims have zero predictive value. Claiming doesn't give you new information, therefore for this game it's a null tell.

You yourself say this:

I believe something like... 95% of miller claims are town. But ONLY if they are for mafia. Third party miller claims are like... 66% third party.

Right, but you don't know ahead of time if the claimant is town, scum or 3rd party, so don't know which of the 95% or 66% would apply (to say nothing about the numbers being ass-pulled), or that people will act like other people have acted elsewhere in the same proportion. Therefore, you can't derive the conclusion that they are more likely to be town. It does not follow.

Just a little fyi, claiming miller in almost any game is a sure fire way to be townlike.

Sure, it's a valid feint for scum, a perfectly viable tactic which should be used more often. It's a good screen for mafia/dopps, and a good way for an alien/3rd-party to discourage inspections on them. This is precisely the reason why it should be regarded as a null tell every time.

Regarding miller claims as null tells is the only epistemologically sound course of action, everything else is wishful thinking, self-delusional wobbly logic, and wifom.


But never mind. Feel free to stay on your rocking horse. You are still wrong.

[Toaster]

I think he meant "third party miller" as in "inspects as a third party."