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[webadict]

I missed this:

Oh, and webadict,

snip

Hmm, I changed my mind. I thought about it and Dariush would have to be LESS likely to be scum. Since he claimed after my explanation, the only reason he'd do so would be if he were actually a Kook because he'd KNOW it'd be super scummy to do as such. Scum wouldn't claim like that. I wouldn't even do that as scum.

I just thought about something, with this post. It took five times for Dariush to understand why he was scummier than Hapah, and I'm not exactly sure he has understood it even now, and in any case he didn't understand it back then, so I'm not exactly sure this applies. What do you think?

It still doesn't change the fact that he kookclaimed at a rather horrible time, plus my description for why he was more likely Town came afterward. Also, he might be a moron.

My internet connection has been unstable for the past few days, often coming and going multiple times in a few minutes. So here is my much-delayed post while I am still connected:

Web:

-snip-

He actually listed what he thought of the theory. He said it doesn't apply to Dariush because it was after I explained why it's good. I think that actually makes Dariush LESS likely to be scum, but that's me, but you seemed to have skipped that.

I don't think Ottofar is trying at all to make Dariush rage, either. You're criticizing him by using my words against him, instead of his own, Deathsword.

According to you, claiming kook is a towntell, yet Ottofar seems all too happy to believe you when it comes to Hapah's claim, but not Dariush's. And even after you said that Dariush's claim was too risky and, thus, less likely to be a fake, he kept insisting it was a nulltell when it came to Dariush. And yet, not Hapah. What I tried to point out (and obviously failed) is that Ottofar is defending Hapah for some reason, while also trying to drive a lynch on Dariush. That is why I voted him.

And then he proceeded to ignore everything I said and much later throw a vote on me.

That's funny you say that, because you're ignoring the reasoning behind that, which he's said multiple times.

You're dealing in some sort of false dichotomy where either you have to believe me entirely or not at all. Why is that? Explain what part of his reasoning is flawed. Because you've only stated what his reasoning is, but no reason for why it's flawed. Congratulations. I said he's more likely to be Town. He disagreed. Where's the problem?

So, you're saying he's defending Hapah, even though he listed that Dariush is less likely to be Town because he claimed later? Even though he explained several times WHY he believes Dariush is scummier than Hapah? He has given reasons for his justification, and I don't understand how they don't fit. I disagree with the reasons, but I do think they make sense for him to believe them.

[Dariush]

But I did. I said that our deflections are equal. By saying that I did deflect, you admitted to have deflected too.

I'm terrified to even ask how the bolded part is supposed to work.

And about that word twisting, feel free to check your own posts. You start twisting my words from my very first post with content.

Sure, be a crybaby. Big bad Dariush did it too, oh yes. Except he didn't. And quotes are for big bad Dariushes like him, right?

You should really learn to know that words might have multiple meanings. What I meant with the "I don't think..." part was that the day didn't have much content in it to draw from.

A lot of people who drew something and didn't, you know, activelurk their ass off, would disagree with that.

So, you're calling whatever you're doing attacking?
I'm pretty sure we're having different definitions here.

And... that's it? Instead of explaining your deflection, you just resort to... more deflections. Just die already.

Asking about reasons for your own scummitude. All right, I admit this might be a bit weak. Then, I was posting at 3AM.

Shitty explanations. Way to go.

You do know that badmouthing me isn't gonna make me drop you. I still think you're scum. I also know that having a tie when the day ends results in a no-lynch, which is not good.

So you think I am scum, but instead of pressuring or questioning me you bandwagon onto DS, whom you don't neither question or pressure also. Sure.

I've played far worse games than this, but I think this is the first time I've had any kind of conflict with you, and suddenly it's the worst one. Coincidence?

Yes, it's a highly improbable coincidence that a brainless waste of biomass like you manages to type relatively coherent sentences.

Jack:
Activelurking through the entire D1, reading kook claim as anything other than a null one, bandwagon onto DS and uncountable instances of deflections (quite a high number of them quoted in this very post), lying, twisting his own words and other peoples' ones, playing completely reactively without ever doing anything unless prodded numerous times and so on and so forth.

Hapah, want a short pop quiz? Regardless of your answer, you'll get one anyway: why does your vote look like a badly justified bandwagon to me? Who are your suspicions? Why do you keep promising us more content later, which turns out to be either a PFP, a promise of more content, or a half-assed explanation of how you're too lazy to play for the life of you?

[Pandarsenic]

Ottofar, you unvoted Dariush and switched to Deathsword only to prevent a no-lynch, correct? So you believe that both are scum of some sort?

[Ottofar]

Ottofar, you unvoted Dariush and switched to Deathsword only to prevent a no-lynch, correct? So you believe that both are scum of some sort?

Correct.

[Tiruin]

I hate my connection. Also, argh on exams.

So...much. Things I don't know that I thought I knew, covered down in paste and canvas, and painted over with a smiley face. Welcome to the big world, I guess O_o

Deathsword: Hapah, Ottofar, Toaster, webadict
Ottofar: Dariush, Deathsword
Shakerag: Jack A T, Pandarsenic

So I'm getting the votes on Shakerag is due to his lack of anything in the day, sans any explanation but RL?

Hapah voted DS to prevent any shenanigans as a day ender. But since its extended, he has time to revoke/re-edit it.

On the duel of Ottofar/Dariush - the latter votes Ottofar as an OMGUS because the former stated that 'he didn't care too much', but his later posts indicate that he...cares.

Dariush: Is your vote a permanent type, or a pressure vote? If the former, since when did it become such?

Also, in this post, you aim to out snark Ottofar by stating what he did in presumable comparison to what you have done? Here, where did Ottofar say that you're less likely to be town because of timezones? That seems...impossible.

Spoiler: Consider it this way. (click to show/hide)

I live in a +8 GMT zone.
You live in a timezone where the GM does his work and starts the day.

How does this make me scum? BECAUSE THE SUN IS EARLY ON MY PART?

Hypocrisy isn't a scumtell*

* - I know Jim Groovester said this somewhere...In a BM.

Deathsword: I take it you misinterpreted what Ottofar said here? He didn't say 'scum' per se, but he didn't say scum, explicitly. What are you trying to say here on his motive, and what deflect is there? Seems more like a pressuring attack.

[Stuff regarding webadict's question, about DS' talk on Ottofar]

And then he proceeded to ignore everything I said and much later throw a vote on me.

So, quotes? Links? Where is the 'ignore'? He addressed your statements.

Hapah: So other than that vote to "prevent any shenanigans", are you going to unvote - and given the timespan until ~60 or so hours from now, why Deathsword? And before that, why vote him instead of any other target judging by your suspicions? Did you just vote him to assure a lynch?

Toaster: I've seen you ask people, before, on their faction. Why so? Like "Are you a doppelganger" or "What type of alien are you?" - What do you hope to gain by the answers people will give if or if not they have the race you ask?

Ottofar:

Nerjin, have you played a paranormal before? Scratch that, have you played any open setup with millers before? And you are aware, that there have been multiple kook claims within a single game before?

Also, did you take into account that claiming a kook as town is pretty much the standard, but claiming kook as scum is extremely ballsy? While it would statistically be a good move for a single dopp to do this, it does take balls to be in the spotlight as scum, and slightest mistakes might earn you an evening in the gallows.

I don't get the ballsy part. What difference does it make if dopp claims it D1 as opposed to a Townie? Why would it be ballsy, or...brave, if I get that term right? How does that gain the spotlight?

Ottofar, again.

I kinda have a speech to write, for school, so I'm gonna unvote Dariush, and vote Deathsword instead, for now, for the basically reasonless bandwagon thingie, and to prevent a no-lynch. I'll probably check back in couple of hours.

Before that.

The Whiteboard
Dariush: Ottofar
Deathsword: Toaster, webadict
Ottofar: Dariush, Deathsword
Shakerag: Jack A T, Pandarsenic

Bandwagon = be the second voter without making any kind of stable foundation for a case? Reading what he said...Um. Did you just repeat Toaster's words? On that note, Toaster: Why did you state DS was bandwagoning, and how (meaning how can 2 people be a bandwagon)?


PPE: Pandar.

Then Ottofar...

Add to my statement Otto: Explain your reasoning.

[Ottofar]

[--]

Ottofar:

Nerjin, have you played a paranormal before? Scratch that, have you played any open setup with millers before? And you are aware, that there have been multiple kook claims within a single game before?

Also, did you take into account that claiming a kook as town is pretty much the standard, but claiming kook as scum is extremely ballsy? While it would statistically be a good move for a single dopp to do this, it does take balls to be in the spotlight as scum, and slightest mistakes might earn you an evening in the gallows.

I don't get the ballsy part. What difference does it make if dopp claims it D1 as opposed to a Townie? Why would it be ballsy, or...brave, if I get that term right? How does that gain the spotlight?

Ottofar, again.

I kinda have a speech to write, for school, so I'm gonna unvote Dariush, and vote Deathsword instead, for now, for the basically reasonless bandwagon thingie, and to prevent a no-lynch. I'll probably check back in couple of hours.

Before that.

The Whiteboard

Bandwagon = be the second voter without making any kind of stable foundation for a case? Reading what he said...Um. Did you just repeat Toaster's words? On that note, Toaster: Why did you state DS was bandwagoning, and how (meaning how can 2 people be a bandwagon)?

[--]

Add to my statement Otto: Explain your reasoning.

Claiming kook is, I think, from a psychological standpoint quite brave, since people tend to avoid lying, as much as possible, and the statistical standpoint, where there are two kooks at maximum, and the scum will try and avoid getting three kook claims in the game. And, well. There aren't many games, if any, where scum have claimed kook.

And reasoning with DS? No lynch is bad, DS is scummy because lurky, and bandwagony Dariush-copying thing, and he's at two votes, while Shakerag only had his lurking. Which is bad, yes, and if the Vig hadn't died, I'd be totally in favour of vigging him. I just had a neutral view of him, while DS was on the worse end of the scale.

Bandwagoning is fine, if there's proper reasoning behind it. DS just used the same, flawed reasoning that Dariush used three posts earlier, which kinda isn't.

[Hapah]

Hapah, want a short pop quiz? Regardless of your answer, you'll get one anyway: why does your vote look like a badly justified bandwagon to me? Who are your suspicions? Why do you keep promising us more content later, which turns out to be either a PFP, a promise of more content, or a half-assed explanation of how you're too lazy to play for the life of you?

-How should I know what my vote looks like to you?
-I don't really have any.
-Because this game is a chore. It's just bile and extends and it feels more like work than a game. Hell, I'd go so far as to say this is the second most unenjoyable game of Mafia I've ever played. I'll be happy when either you or Otto is dead so we can get on with it.

Hapah: So other than that vote to "prevent any shenanigans", are you going to unvote - and given the timespan until ~60 or so hours from now, why Deathsword? And before that, why vote him instead of any other target judging by your suspicions? Did you just vote him to assure a lynch?

I'll make sure the vote is locked up again, if nothing else. Deathsword had the most votes at the moment and was MIA, so I didn't feel too bad about lynching him. But yes, I voted him to make sure a lynch would go through.

[Toaster]

Toaster:

Deathsword:  Why are you shamelessly bandwagonning on Ottofar?

I am not. See the explanation above.

This explanation is awfully hard to follow.  Can you reference those claims you've made?


Tiruin:

Toaster: I've seen you ask people, before, on their faction. Why so? Like "Are you a doppelganger" or "What type of alien are you?" - What do you hope to gain by the answers people will give if or if not they have the race you ask?

I expect the answer to be some variant of a simple "I am town."  On occasion, you will get answer that bears further scrutiny, such as a overreaction or a suspiciously specific denial (such as "Are you town?" "I am not a dopp.")  Most of the time it doesn't get anything useful, but then it doesn't really cost anything either.

Bandwagon = be the second voter without making any kind of stable foundation for a case? Reading what he said...Um. Did you just repeat Toaster's words? On that note, Toaster: Why did you state DS was bandwagoning, and how (meaning how can 2 people be a bandwagon)?

A bandwagon vote is just a specific case of a poorly-reasoned vote.  In this case, I'd say voting someone that was just recently voted counts as a bandwagon, even if it's just the second vote- as long as your reasoning is poor.  Which it is.


Hapah:

-Because this game is a chore. It's just bile and extends and it feels more like work than a game. Hell, I'd go so far as to say this is the second most unenjoyable game of Mafia I've ever played. I'll be happy when either you or Otto is dead so we can get on with it.

If you want them dead, why are you voting Deathsword?

[Toaster]

EBWOP: First bit there is to Deathsword.

[Tiruin]

[My question and post including questioning why  scum claiming a kook and stuff.]

Claiming kook is, I think, from a psychological standpoint quite brave, since people tend to avoid lying, as much as possible, and the statistical standpoint, where there are two kooks at maximum, and the scum will try and avoid getting three kook claims in the game. And, well. There aren't many games, if any, where scum have claimed kook.

And reasoning with DS? No lynch is bad, DS is scummy because lurky, and bandwagony Dariush-copying thing, and he's at two votes, while Shakerag only had his lurking. Which is bad, yes, and if the Vig hadn't died, I'd be totally in favour of vigging him. I just had a neutral view of him, while DS was on the worse end of the scale.

Bandwagoning is fine, if there's proper reasoning behind it. DS just used the same, flawed reasoning that Dariush used three posts earlier, which kinda isn't.

But yet nobody else will know that said scum is claiming kook, other than his buddies. Its all psychological, especially from the viewpoint of the person. Still, it follows that they're playing to win in that way because of how you word it.

Now here's two questions:
> What would your interpretation be, hypothetically, if a third kook claim came into the game and not in D1?
> Explain the bolded part.

Hapah, want a short pop quiz? Regardless of your answer, you'll get one anyway: why does your vote look like a badly justified bandwagon to me? Who are your suspicions? Why do you keep promising us more content later, which turns out to be either a PFP, a promise of more content, or a half-assed explanation of how you're too lazy to play for the life of you?

-How should I know what my vote looks like to you?
-I don't really have any.
-Because this game is a chore. It's just bile and extends and it feels more like work than a game. Hell, I'd go so far as to say this is the second most unenjoyable game of Mafia I've ever played. I'll be happy when either you or Otto is dead so we can get on with it.

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

:<

Play to have fun too Hapah :/

[Jack A T]

According to you, claiming kook is a towntell, yet Ottofar seems all too happy to believe you when it comes to Hapah's claim, but not Dariush's.

Deathsword: And this is scummy because...?

And even after you said that Dariush's claim was too risky and, thus, less likely to be a fake, he kept insisting it was a nulltell when it came to Dariush. And yet, not Hapah.

And this is scummy because...?

I fail to see how agreeing with Webadict on some things and disagreeing with Webadict on other things is scummy on its own.  Do you have any reasons to believe that is scummy, aside from it being beneficial to one player without being beneficial to another?

[Ottofar]

[My question and post including questioning why  scum claiming a kook and stuff.]

Claiming kook is, I think, from a psychological standpoint quite brave, since people tend to avoid lying, as much as possible, and the statistical standpoint, where there are two kooks at maximum, and the scum will try and avoid getting three kook claims in the game. And, well. There aren't many games, if any, where scum have claimed kook.

And reasoning with DS? No lynch is bad, DS is scummy because lurky, and bandwagony Dariush-copying thing, and he's at two votes, while Shakerag only had his lurking. Which is bad, yes, and if the Vig hadn't died, I'd be totally in favour of vigging him. I just had a neutral view of him, while DS was on the worse end of the scale.

Bandwagoning is fine, if there's proper reasoning behind it. DS just used the same, flawed reasoning that Dariush used three posts earlier, which kinda isn't.

But yet nobody else will know that said scum is claiming kook, other than his buddies. Its all psychological, especially from the viewpoint of the person. Still, it follows that they're playing to win in that way because of how you word it.

Now here's two questions:
1. What would your interpretation be, hypothetically, if a third kook claim came into the game and not in D1?
2. Explain the bolded part.

1. I would probably try and lynch the claimant. The only reason for that would be a guilty result on the guy, and uh. Yeah.
2. I'm cool with vigging lurkers, because they're pretty useless, and rather distracting. I just would prefer not to use a lynch on them when there are scummier targets to hang.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: Unless you're an exty/op pair or a hivemind/convert, then that pretty much makes Pandar non-alien.

So who is scum and why?

Good question.  As of this point in my re-read, my response is "fuck if I know".  Hopefully that will change as I continue.


... which, it really didn't.  Fuck. 

I'll dare to be different and No Lynch, as I can't seem to find a foothold anywhere in this game. 

I'm feeling Hapah is non-dopp.  He might be third party, but whatever he is, I'm betting it's not part of a team, as I'd think if he had teammates he wouldn't be flailing about like he is.  Teammates would help ground him on some path of action. 


Ottofar:  What do you think of Hapah's vote on DS?  Is it a reasonless bandwagon thingie too?

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Dariush: Tiruin
Deathsword: Hapah, Ottofar, Toaster, webadict
Ottofar: Dariush, Deathsword
Shakerag: Jack A T, Pandarsenic
No Lynch: Shakerag


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today (~7.5 hours)

[Hapah]

PFP Unvote.