Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Extract even MORE data - I want to customize what I get.

50 (24.3%)

Megabeasts and semimegabeasts need more work.

15 (7.3%)

Why no vermin? I want to annoy the heck out of myself.

10 (4.9%)

Nothing swims underwater?! How could you? I want aquatic life.

60 (29.1%)

Let's have (rare) random creatures that breathe fire and/or poison you to death.

34 (16.5%)

Forget RandCreatures; work on LangCreate.

17 (8.3%)

Zombie's Toothbrush.

6 (2.9%)

Make birds more birdlike.

12 (5.8%)

I want something else, but I'll suggest it in-thread.

2 (1%)

Total Members Voted: 205

[Talvieno]

Excellent! Thank you.

So, what we have here is a two-headed creature with four legs and two eyestalks. It's made of chitin, yet it has feathers. Better yet, it lays eggs. Bizarre enough for ya yet?

It didn't take long; I know the reason the second head is close to the end. Unfortunately, there's no way I can fix it without altering the default raws (or making up new raws altogether, which I was trying desperately to avoid to allow my program to mesh smoothly with other peoples'.). Here's the reason:

The [BODY: tag starts with "QUADRUPED:". This adds in an upper body, lower body, head, right front leg, left front leg, right front foot, left front foot, right rear leg, left rear leg, right rear foot, and a left rear foot, in that order. Next, it adds a mouth and a brain (MOUTH:BRAIN:). Then, it adds an extra head (BASIC_HEAD:). This makes the head NEXT on the list. It's as close as it can be to the top, unfortunately, it's not close enough, and you see the list as follows:

Spoiler: How the list looks ingame (click to show/hide)

UPPER BODY
LOWER BODY
HEAD
RIGHT FRONT LEG
LEFT FRONT LEG
RIGHT FRONT FOOT
LEFT FRONT FOOT
RIGHT REAR LEG
LEFT REAR LEG
RIGHT REAR FOOT
LEFT REAR FOOT
HEAD

The head is near the bottom of the list. There's no way to get it any closer to the top, because it attaches directly to the upper body. Without "QUADRUPED:", there's nothing for it to attach to, because QUADRUPED contains BODY_UPPER.

If you keep looking at this bizarre creature, you'll notice that the second head has teeth, but no mouth (bwahaha - actually, some of Toady's own creatures do that), as well as two eyestalks. With no neck, it's basically a bump on the upper body with teeth and eyes. THAT is my definition of random. And unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to fix the issue you pointed out without making my mod largely incompatible with other mods, or redoing the bodyparts from scratch. Right now everything's weighted carefully to make it more "realistic", i.e. the chance of something occurring in a randomly generated creature is just as likely as it is to be in a vanilla creature you randomly stumble across.

One of them also built and lived in houses even though they couldn't open doors.

I call that a feature.

Lol, I like the way you think. I was thinking of using that excuse, but I was aiming for semi-realism (yes, feathery chitin qualifies. Hush. >.>).  I'll put up a poll.

Edit: poll is up.

[Tsuchigumo550]

I like to think of them as lemmings... just... weird lemmings.

[Talvieno]

Technically, as all everybody ever does in towns is stand around inside houses, it doesn't really hurt gameplay.

[Cobbler89]

Thanks for the explanation re. how symbol roots are made/used, oh clever Talv!

Technically, as all everybody ever does in towns is stand around inside houses, it doesn't really hurt gameplay.

Some of us are, no doubt, thinking ahead, what with the devlogs these days...

My take:
1) If it's something that's a flaw in the way the raws are structured that affects vanilla creatures, like the extra inclusion of a head with teeth but no mouth, leave it and we'll see when Toady makes the default raws better in that regard.
2) If it's something contradictory like creatures building doors they can't open or owning shields they can't carry, I say make it a user setting -- or even multiple user settings: "strict building compliance" and "strict owning/wielding/using compliance", so the people who think the doors thing is a feature but the shields and swords thing is a bug can be made happy.
3) You could in the same spirit scrap #1 in favor of a setting "use default raws even if there are design flaws" vs. "use improved raws for consistent, better-controlled, quality (well, at least non-incomprehensible) creatures".

Going back to the language generator, could it be made to 1) not get stuck/crash when I accidentally hit enter with no words or name in it, 2) have a cancel or back button for convenience, and most importantly 3) allow me to go back to my word list and try again if I get the entire language rejected on account of things like "not enough distinct beginnings and endings"? (I guess #2 or #2-like things is/are most important if #3 is added, since you'd want a way to be able to say, "No, if that didn't work just close out".)

Yes, I toy with extreme/edge cases and try all sorts of unusual things with a program, both purposely and accidentally; I actually work in software support, and like to think of myself as borderline quality assurance (borderline as in it's not officially part of my job but I do everything I can about it given what my job is). ;^)

[Glanzor]

And unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to fix the issue you pointed out without making my mod largely incompatible with other mods, or redoing the bodyparts from scratch.

Okay, I know nothing about programming, but couldn't you just forbid the program from adding an extra [BASIC_HEAD]-tag if the body-type it starts out with (like QUADRUPED) already contains a head?
I always wondered why girlinhat's generator always created a body-raw of its own. now I know.

Re: The doors-issue: I only noticed that because the game gave me the option to play as one of those as an adventurer and I couldn't get any quests or hide from the bogeyman which made this particular adventure pretty short-lived.

[MasterMorality]

I used the Lang generator when I made the Thothgol. I'm going to have so much fun with the creature/civ gen. If I can get it work under Wine...

Bah: the .exe didn't play very nice with Wine, unlike DF Lang, so I'm out of luck   No quick shenanigans for me.

[Sporemaniac777]

Pardon my stupidity, but can anyone please tell me what program is used to open the .kpl file? Thanks in advance.

[Reudh]

This looks amazing, Talvi. I must use it immediately!

[MasterMorality]

Pardon my stupidity, but can anyone please tell me what program is used to open the .kpl file? Thanks in advance.

According to my computer it's a Wine file, but I think that's just my computer.

[Tsuchigumo550]

The program is in "bin".

[Sporemaniac777]

The program is in "bin".

Oh... Now I feel stupid. Thank you! 

[slink]

This fellow quickly suffocated in the arena, all by himself.  Not sure why, but maybe without a mouth the lungs can't get air?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:CREATURE_1KLEBZVLS_CF]
   [NAME:ertfevarod:ertfevarods:ertfevarod]
   [DESCRIPTION:A small, crimson monster with no mouth and a long prehensile tail. It is made entirely of blood and feeds on fear.]
   [COLOR:4:0:0]
   [CASTE_NAME:ertfevarod:ertfevarods:ertfevarod]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'e']
   [PREFSTRING:blood]
   [NATURAL][LARGE_ROAMING]
   [PETVALUE:700]
   [PET_EXOTIC]
   [NO_DIZZINESS]
   [NO_DRINK]
   [NO_FEVERS]
   [NOBONES]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:18:42]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:8]
   [BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:TUNDRA]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BODY:BASIC_1PARTBODY:GUTS:HEART:RIBCAGE:2LUNGS:TAIL:BASIC_3PARTLEGS:ORGANS:SPINE:2WINGS:BASIC_HEAD:TONGUE]
   [EXTRAVISION]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:frozen 1KLEBZVLS blood]
      [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen 1KLEBZVLS blood]
      [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:1KLEBZVLS blood]
      [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:1KLEBZVLS blood]
      [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling 1KLEBZVLS blood]
      [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling 1KLEBZVLS blood]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [TISSUE:BLOOD]
      [TISSUE_NAME:blood:NP]
      [TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD]
      [TISSUE_MAT_STATE:LIQUID]
      [MUSCULAR]
      [FUNCTIONAL]
      [STRUCTURAL]
      [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
      [CONNECTS]
      [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:BLOOD]
   [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
    [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [SPEED:1500]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
   [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
   [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
   [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:99]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:0:1776]
   [BODY_SIZE:32:0:28415.45498112]
   [MAXAGE:32:59]
   [CHILD:14]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10037]
   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2202]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:LEATHERY_EGG_MATERIALS]
   [CASTE:FEMALE]
      [FEMALE]
      [LAYS_EGGS]
      [EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGGSHELL:SOLID]
      [EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG_WHITE:LIQUID]
      [EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG_YOLK:LIQUID]
      [EGG_SIZE:108.9]
      [CLUTCH_SIZE:1:1]
   [CASTE:MALE]
      [MALE]
   [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:BLOOD]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:CRIMSON:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:blood:SINGULAR]
   [SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [MULTIPLY_VALUE:4]

[Tsuchigumo550]

This is getting interesting. Beta testing sure is fun, I should really try it. If this is a beta. More like post-beta? It's a pretty full program.

[Talvieno]

Pardon my stupidity, but can anyone please tell me what program is used to open the .kpl file? Thanks in advance.

It's used by Phrogram, a largely unheard-of programming language/IDE I used to champion (I'm nkweeks there, though). It's even easier to open with notepad: open notepad, and drag and drop the file icon into it. (At least, that's how it works in windows). It's easy to read.
    I'd use C++ or Java, but as I said... my laptop is toast, and I'm between computers. The one I'm borrowing to program on (and write Vanya's story on) is really old, and I can't install much of anything on it at all (not to mention the fact that it's out of hard drive space).

This fellow quickly suffocated in the arena, all by himself.  Not sure why, but maybe without a mouth the lungs can't get air?

-snip-

I discovered some odd things while testing, and got rid of a lot of the issues like that, but actually, it is possible to have a lunged creature that can breathe, without it having a mouth, or even a throat. Odd, I know. lol   I can't remember if it was because the creature was brainless, or because of something else, though. I'm almost positive that this particular creature suffocated because the program didn't give it a brain, and because I was stupid and apparently deleted the line of code that was meant to make up for something like that happening. (You can see it added [EXTRAVISION] after the [BODY: line; I didn't delete that, at least. lol

More importantly, I noticed this:
      [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:frozen 1KLEBZVLS blood]
That REALLY bugs me. It should say "frozen ertfevarod blood", but apparently it gave it the creature's identifier name instead of the regular, visual one. That'll be fixed in the next release, guaranteed, as will the lungs issue... and the others issues that have already been mentioned.


AS TO THE TWO-HEADED CREATURE:
    I'm not going to remove two-headed creatures completely, which is what it would take for the head to generate at the top of the list, so that'll stay as it is. I value my randomness, and sacrificing all oddities so that all "randomly generated" creatures look like creatures that already exist ingame is not something I'd be willing to do... I don't consider it negotiable... unless, of course, someone can convince me to spend the time necessary to write up a new raw file, and more specifically, convince me that meshing with other mods isn't such a great idea.

This is getting interesting. Beta testing sure is fun, I should really try it. If this is a beta. More like post-beta? It's a pretty full program.

It's definitely beta, and it's likely going to stay that way as I continue adding onto it. Please note that I don't usually have much time online.

[Glanzor]

AS TO THE TWO-HEADED CREATURE:
    I'm not going to remove two-headed creatures completely, which is what it would take for the head to generate at the top of the list, so that'll stay as it is. I value my randomness, and sacrificing all oddities so that all "randomly generated" creatures look like creatures that already exist ingame is not something I'd be willing to do... I don't consider it negotiable... unless, of course, someone can convince me to spend the time necessary to write up a new raw file, and more specifically, convince me that meshing with other mods isn't such a great idea.

Well it won't stop making two-headed creatures completely, since it could still roll a [BODY:HUMANOID_2HEAD] or something similar, just the labeling and listing would be correct.

Also, are you implying that making a new raw file would make it incompatible with other mods? Because you could just make it create a body_raw of its own, separate from the default one, and therefore avoid all compatibility issues altogether. That's what the other creature generator did as well, I think.