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[Dansmithers]

In my extremely limited experience, it seems that throwing someone into magma is not nearly as deadly as it should be. I propose that it should be possible for creatures to die if they have burns on more than, let's say, 75% of their body.

[10ebbor10]

In my extremely limited experience, it seems that throwing someone into magma is not nearly as deadly as it should be. I propose that it should be possible for creatures to die if they have burns on more than, let's say, 75% of their body.

That's an abitrary definition, and as such doesn't fit into DF health's system.

A better way would be to improve the simulation of burns (first, second ,third degrees) and allow for overheating, as wel as other things. This way you can have your dwarfs run through a fire and have light burns all over the place, while magma is suitably deadly.

[Adrian]

A better way would be to improve the simulation of burns (first, second ,third degrees) and allow for overheating, as well as other things.

Right now burns are simulated as tiny cuts on the body.
Burns would be more realistic if they were simulated through syndromes giving pain, redness, blistering, numbness and necrosis.
The syndrome would have to be present in all organic tissue and triggered when it comes in contact with anything hotter than 80C.
And then a difference needs to be made between first, second, third and fourth degree burns.
Needles to say, complex.

[Dansmithers]

In my extremely limited experience, it seems that throwing someone into magma is not nearly as deadly as it should be. I propose that it should be possible for creatures to die if they have burns on more than, let's say, 75% of their body.

That's an abitrary definition, and as such doesn't fit into DF health's system.

A better way would be to improve the simulation of burns (first, second ,third degrees) and allow for overheating, as wel as other things. This way you can have your dwarfs run through a fire and have light burns all over the place, while magma is suitably deadly.

That seems like a great system, but IRL that's about how much the human body can sustain

[GreatWyrmGold]

So, 74% you're okay, 75% you're dead?
That's not DF, that's, I dunno, Final Fantasy or Minecraft or something.

Dwarf Fortress cares about not just simulating it well, but simulating it right. And for a game in alpha, it does pretty well.

[Owlbread]

I don't know if the game simulates magma accurately enough though, seeing as a lot of these guys who fall into the magma simultaneously drown and bleed to death. In real life, wouldn't you basically land on top of the lava and float, bursting into flames with all your skin burning to a crisp and falling off? You would die extremely quickly.

[Dansmithers]

So, 74% you're okay, 75% you're dead?
That's not DF, that's, I dunno, Final Fantasy or Minecraft or something.

Dwarf Fortress cares about not just simulating it well, but simulating it right. And for a game in alpha, it does pretty well.

More like, 75% and you'll definitely die, it's not totally exact.

[Adrian]

In real life, wouldn't you basically land on top of the lava and float, bursting into flames with all your skin burning to a crisp and falling off?

For that to happen, Dwarf Fortress needs to understand buoyancy. Which, i recon, are going to be implemented at the same time ports, ships and Cthulhu, i mean aquatic beasts are done.

[Revanchist]

Is he planned? That'd be... funny.

I imagined accurate heat-related damages would be a goal that's coming soon, though likely not in this release. I hope elves are flammable.

[AutomataKittay]

I don't know if the game simulates magma accurately enough though, seeing as a lot of these guys who fall into the magma simultaneously drown and bleed to death. In real life, wouldn't you basically land on top of the lava and float, bursting into flames with all your skin burning to a crisp and falling off? You would die extremely quickly.

I think it's because mechanically, the flesh and stuff don't have melting/boiling point. However I've not twiddled with raw relating to it! That and buoyancy's not implemented, yet, but the not burning to death's a bit more noticible

[GreatWyrmGold]

I don't know if the game simulates magma accurately enough though, seeing as a lot of these guys who fall into the magma simultaneously drown and bleed to death. In real life, wouldn't you basically land on top of the lava and float, bursting into flames with all your skin burning to a crisp and falling off? You would die extremely quickly.

Yeah, buoyancy is yet-to-be-simulated.
One day, we'll be chucking goblins into the volcano and they'll just float over, climb out, and set stuff on fire.

So, 74% you're okay, 75% you're dead?
That's not DF, that's, I dunno, Final Fantasy or Minecraft or something.

Dwarf Fortress cares about not just simulating it well, but simulating it right. And for a game in alpha, it does pretty well.

More like, 75% and you'll definitely die, it's not totally exact.

But why is 75% the definite cutoff? Why should 75% coverage of 1st-degree burns be worse than 40% of 3rd? Wouldn't it be better to simulate WHY 75% burnage is lethal, rather than just say that it is?

I don't know if the game simulates magma accurately enough though, seeing as a lot of these guys who fall into the magma simultaneously drown and bleed to death. In real life, wouldn't you basically land on top of the lava and float, bursting into flames with all your skin burning to a crisp and falling off? You would die extremely quickly.

I think it's because mechanically, the flesh and stuff don't have melting/boiling point. However I've not twiddled with raw relating to it! That and buoyancy's not implemented, yet, but the not burning to death's a bit more noticible

I think it's due to bugs in how damage is tracked, and that melting adipose tissue lethally exsanguinates one before one can perish of other means.
Exsanguinate is such a good word...

[AutomataKittay]

So, 74% you're okay, 75% you're dead?
That's not DF, that's, I dunno, Final Fantasy or Minecraft or something.

Dwarf Fortress cares about not just simulating it well, but simulating it right. And for a game in alpha, it does pretty well.

More like, 75% and you'll definitely die, it's not totally exact.

But why is 75% the definite cutoff? Why should 75% coverage of 1st-degree burns be worse than 40% of 3rd? Wouldn't it be better to simulate WHY 75% burnage is lethal, rather than just say that it is?

I think that's based off human medical research, around 75% secondary and third degree burn tend to have very high death rate because of fluid losses and infection ( not definite, but almost so without immediate and long-term care, including IV fluid ). Which's actually already stimulated with fat being melted off and all that, though not very well and not accurate to skin condition

Though that's not speaking for non-human creatures, so there're certain degree of inaccuracy, plus people can die with small nicks due to lack of clotting factor, or due to shock even without being physically in danger.

[GreatWyrmGold]

In my humble tries-to-be-humble opinion, it would be better for Dwarf Fortress to simulate the causes of 75% burnage causing death than to just have a certain amount of burnt body cause death.

[AutomataKittay]

In my humble tries-to-be-humble opinion, it would be better for Dwarf Fortress to simulate the causes of 75% burnage causing death than to just have a certain amount of burnt body cause death.

Agreed, I'd rather it be stimulated through effects on body too, I'm just referencing common medical issue, which won't apply to all creatures, or even every single creature of same kind. There have been -rare- records of humans surviving very through burning, but that's with modern medical aids.

Bleeding out is already pretty good stimulation of fluid losses, what's bad is being submerged in magma isn't burning the very flesh itself.

[Talvieno]

Technically, it's not the burns that kill you in real life. A person in real life could easily burn off all their limbs and survive. The most common reason for dying in heat is either A. internal organs shutting down (doesn't take as long as you'd think), or B. inhaling air hot enough to cook the inside of your lungs (all it takes is one breath). The burns don't kill you. The other stuff does.