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[BigD145]

As far as the Fetch the Universe Quest in X3 goes, I don't use mods because of the *modified* tag... I've got the achievement for it on Steam and I value that more than most of the things I've done in real life,

I'm sorry. You haven't tired of AAA games yet.

[Ozyton]

I feel the same way aboot other games. M&B pretty much ruined melee combat games for me (except Chivalry is a decent alternative with less mods and no SP). ARMA 2/OFP and Red Orchestra have pretty much ruined shooters for me as well =(

The thing is complex, in-depth games aren't really in high demand right now, so the risk of making on might be consudered too high... For the most part making games is a business, and in the end it's what the majority of people want that businesses make. Of course, there are then the people who make the things they want and you end up with things like DF

[alway]

Right this way: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87501.0

Cataclysm zombie survival roguelike. Really complex, and the best part is, he distributes the source. If you don't like something or think it needs more detail, you can reprogram it yourself.

Best played on Linux or through a Linux emulator. It's the reason my PC has a small Ubuntu partition.

[Girlinhat]

Right this way: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87501.0

Cataclysm zombie survival roguelike. Really complex, and the best part is, he distributes the source. If you don't like something or think it needs more detail, you can reprogram it yourself.

Best played on Linux or through a Linux emulator. It's the reason my PC has a small Ubuntu partition.

Mint myself, though I think it's a derivative of Ubuntu?

[Hanzoku]

As far as the Fetch the Universe Quest in X3 goes, I don't use mods because of the *modified* tag... I've got the achievement for it on Steam and I value that more than most of the things I've done in real life,

I'm sorry. You haven't tired of AAA games yet.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes it's fun just to be able to play something for an hour or two that doesn't require a great investment of thinking. As long as time in = enjoyment out, it doesn't really matter if it's indie or AAA.

[notquitethere]

I can second Cataclysm: you've not lived until you've taken apart a truck, turning it into an armoured deathbike, and mowed down zombies in a burning-down shopping mall.

Caves of Qud is my second favourite: postapocalyptic far-future roguelike, in character creation you can choose from a few dozen mutations- uh, check out the thread on this forum for more info I guess.

[Seraphim342]

As far as the Fetch the Universe Quest in X3 goes, I don't use mods because of the *modified* tag... I've got the achievement for it on Steam and I value that more than most of the things I've done in real life,

I'm sorry. You haven't tired of AAA games yet.

Lol, I'm not an achievement hound by any means, in fact that's the only one I've ever felt any "achievement" for getting, but believe me when I say that having that one's a hell of a badge of honor.  The amount of construction and time investment required puts most of my DF Megaprojects to shame.  Try it and tell me I'm wrong

Plus, I don't think anyone would consider Egosoft games "AAA" by any stretch, X3's built on a more-or-less unmodified engine older than the first Unreal Tournament. 

I can second Cataclysm: you've not lived until you've taken apart a truck, turning it into an armoured deathbike, and mowed down zombies in a burning-down shopping mall.

You had me at armored death bike.  Definitely checking this out.

[Mephansteras]

Check out Unreal World. It's a pretty in-depth Survival Roguelike set in an Iron Age Finland (sort of). Quite fun, and gives you a lot of freedom to do different things.

[jester]

Nother vote for Cataclysm and caves of Qud, they are both really deep games, thats what I find is lacking in most A level games these days, skyrim just shit me once I found out that combat was about as complicated as spamming attacks.

  Jagged alliance wildfire is on sale on steam for 7.50 atm, thats another game with its serious pants on.

  And if Planetside isnt filling the FPS hole, I play alot of Highlander TF2, serious clan stuff can be alot of fun, sitting down and working out strats for maps with the team and things really extends games.

  Also, LCS, if by some fluke you havent already tried it.

[Girlinhat]

WarZ is brutal, if you're looking for that.  The open-scale PVP makes for some painful moments.

Skyrim running a sneaker or a pure mage is pretty tough.  Basically if you don't add any points to your HP, then it gets very difficult to function.

[Trapezohedron]

Thirding Cataclysm. It's just so awesome to be driving at full speed, bailing and watching the horde consume you, but-OH WAIT you have 4 turrets with you, so you set them up and start throwing molotovs down the street, shoot all your shotgun bullets and finally activate that stupid mininuke you've been lugging with you.

Windows version is quite stable right now, but the game's definitely better on Linux.

[Ozyton]

Jagged alliance wildfire is on sale on steam for 7.50 atm, thats another game with its serious pants on.

Is it compatible with 1.13? If you aren't playing JA2 with 1.13 you aren't playing it right.

[Gunner-Chan]

Wildfire is 1.13 before there was 1.13.

Just get JA2 gold and put the 1.13 mod, you can tweak nearly anything in it to feel more like wildfire if you really want that. Do keep in mind though, JA2 even with 1.13 hasn't aged well in some ways, I can't seem to play it for very long without my saves breaking.

[itisnotlogical]

Have you tried the original XCom or it's sequel, Terror from the Deep? Being military-focused they're not quite as complex as Dwarf Fortress, but they're still ball-bustingly hard to a newbie. They're five bucks apiece on Steam IIRC.

Oddly enough, I've found some fulfillment with interactive fiction games like A Mind Forever Voyaging and Leather Godesses of Phobos. Although on the surface not as "complex" as Dwarf Fort, the puzzles are mind-bending and a lot of fun to figure out. In most text adventures (the two I mentioned in particular), the storytelling is absolutely amazing. Infocom had some writers that understood their medium.

[Majestic7]

I feel your pain. If you like strategy games, mods might help. For example, Fall from Heaven II (and its modmods) for Civ IV or Stainless Steel for MTW II. It is kind of sad how you need mods to get really deep gaming experience. It is like the games as sold are just framework waiting for modders to put in the content.

Alternatively, try tabletop roleplaying! No deeper gaming experiences than those. Sure, some people play it as pretty shallow hack'n'slash, but that is their loss.