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Author Topic: The smart uranium suggestion  (Read 4601 times)

GoombaGeek

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The smart uranium suggestion
« on: November 18, 2012, 10:13:14 pm »

Before saying anything
- I have researched this.
- Almost all search results are from 2009 or worse, like this:
Spoiler: An old suggestion (click to show/hide)
- And they are all roughly the same: mine it, enrich it, wacky hijinx, don't forget mutations and cancer.
Spoiler: Can't forget cancer (click to show/hide)

So, what does Toady have to say about this?

What does Wikipedia have to say about this?

So, to actually refine pure elemental uranium, dwarves need pure fluorine. This is impossible no matter how much ‼dwarven science‼ you apply. Even better, enriching it involves either more fluorine or dwarven centrifuges. Uranium ingots are right out, slightly enriched fuel rod uranium even more so, and enriched atomic bombs are so right out that they're almost left out. Don't even mention plutonium. But what else does Toady have to say?

Spoiler: Back in 2007... (click to show/hide)

Huh! This contradicts the raws. Of course, it's a complicated, controversial issue and tech levels are hard to deal with, but using pitchblende only to glaze dwarven ceramics is a crying shame, so let's assume that a) dwarves are clever bastards and b) glazers usually get enlisted in the zerg rush wrestling squad because nobody likes glazing. So what are our current uses for pitchblende?

1. Glaze ceramics: Toady-approved, hopefully not controversial, Fiestaware.
2. Make uranium glass: More controversial, could be possible, leads to neat light green glass.

For uranium glass, let's say it's more valuable than even crystal glass, or equally valuable: pitchblende and rock crystal are both rare in-game. To be fair and just, we could also add lead glass, although I don't know how valuable that should be. How will we craft this madness?

1. Glaze ceramics: Reaction at the kiln: pitchblende boulder → pitchblende glaze. Glaze as normal.
2. Make uranium glass: Glass furnace: Take raw clear glass and pitchblende boulder → uranium glass. This should work.

Now let's open a horrible issue: radioactivity. Mutations are a stretch, and cancer isn't implemented yet, so maybe working with pitchblende can release little bits pitchblende dust on occasion, which causes COUGH_BLOOD when a lot of it has been inhaled. This shouldn't be too hard on the raws and it's pretty realistic.

There's one other radioactive metal that occurs in high-ish quantities: thorium.
Spoiler: Wikipedia says (click to show/hide)

That means "too much work". No thorium.

Other ideas could involve radon being released, but honestly, if you want to start with complex poisoning, start with lead, mercury, and arsenic. This suggestion is silly and out of place, but I just wanted to put everything in one spot and make it somewhat recent. Besides, uranium is fun even without bombs.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 11:04:01 pm »

Why not make uranium glass like you make crystal glass?

Hopefully, this would lead to glassmaking going into the raws.
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Just Some Guy

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 11:46:21 pm »

This could work.

Deimos56

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 12:16:36 am »

Hopefully, this would lead to glassmaking going into the raws.
I wholeheartedly welcome anything that could lead to stained glass windows that don't require precious gemstones.
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Seraphim342

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2012, 09:58:10 pm »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"

Like the stained glass idea though, and can think of many possible ways to weaponize radiation. 
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Adrian

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 06:49:51 am »

Regarding radioactivity, i think that needs to wait until there are both some form of lighting system in Dorf Fort which can be used in calculating dosage and syndromes are refined into non-transmissible diseases.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 09:12:26 am »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"
You're not expecting much special to happen, are you?

Quote
Like the stained glass idea though, and can think of many possible ways to weaponize radiation.
See below for my point on radiation.

Regarding radioactivity, i think that needs to wait until there are both some form of lighting system in Dorf Fort which can be used in calculating dosage and syndromes are refined into non-transmissible diseases.
I think radiation should wait until we have more radioactive materials.

Uranium isn't quite stable, but most forms have long enough half-lives that you'd need to be standing next to a chunk of uranium for a while to get much of a chance of radiation sickness. Uranium projectiles would be heavy, but not cancer-inducing (unless left in the wound too long, of course). Amd, of course,this is assuming you could smelt uranium into uranium at all.
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GoombaGeek

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 11:06:39 pm »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"
You're not expecting much special to happen, are you?

Quote
Like the stained glass idea though, and can think of many possible ways to weaponize radiation.
See below for my point on radiation.

Regarding radioactivity, i think that needs to wait until there are both some form of lighting system in Dorf Fort which can be used in calculating dosage and syndromes are refined into non-transmissible diseases.
I think radiation should wait until we have more radioactive materials.

Uranium isn't quite stable, but most forms have long enough half-lives that you'd need to be standing next to a chunk of uranium for a while to get much of a chance of radiation sickness. Uranium projectiles would be heavy, but not cancer-inducing (unless left in the wound too long, of course). Amd, of course,this is assuming you could smelt uranium into uranium at all.
1. It would be nice if uranium ballista bolts caught on fire and contaminated the ground, assuming we can smelt it, because there's a thing about uranium dioxide: its melting point is 2865 degrees Celsius, topping the much-feared bauxite (2072 degrees).
2. Alpha radiation is blocked by clothes. The only way it killed people before we started refining it was through mountain sickness: silver miners would start coughing up blood one day and within six months they'd be dead (of lung cancer, but they didn't know it at the time). This is as close as we're likely to get to radiation sickness for now, because powerfully radioactive materials aren't usually found in nature in large quantities (because they decay so quickly in order to give off noticeable radiation), so we had to refine them. The first was radium, I'm pretty sure. The problem is that radium is only found in tiny trace amounts in any amount of uranium, and one gram of radium bromide cost 22,000 pre-inflation (late 1800s) dollars - that was considered cheap. "Wait until powerfully radioactive materials"? How about "wait until the game handles and can handle miniscule traces of different materials interspersed together"?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 11:20:31 pm »

Well, what will we find that has a temperature between 2,072 and 2,865 degrees Celsius?
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Seraphim342

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 03:39:41 am »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"
You're not expecting much special to happen, are you?

No, just for the lulz.  Though can you think of anything better to shoot out of a Dwarven Shotgun/Railgun than a block of uranium? =p

Agree that it's not really realistic to have radiation poisoning, but could be amusing nonetheless.  Uranium's still highly toxic, especially if inhaled though, so there's that.  Could drop dust when mined or something similar.  Either way, I wouldn't place it high on a priority list. 
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GoombaGeek

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 01:02:36 am »

I just remembered, we have reactors now that can actually run on unenriched uranium dioxide pulled right out of the ground! But they need heavy water which is also impossible to get an appreciable pure amount of without modern technology. Darn.

And I also remembered why nobody smelts uranium: UO2 has a melting point of almost 3000 degrees Celsius (almost 3000 as in ~2850), compared to bauxite, which only melts at ~2200 degrees. So yeah, you can't get it. I have no idea if the Hall process would work (haven't looked into it very much).

And yes, I forgot it was poisonous by itself. If we ever get a lead/mercury/arsenic/cadmium poisoning feature (inorganic syndromes that work, basically), pitchblende should be right up there as a terrible poisonous contaminant.
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Di

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 01:49:54 pm »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"
You're not expecting much special to happen, are you?
They're using uranium projectiles nowadays because it's heavy. Still, for a dwarven shotgun lead or gold would fare better.
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JohnieRWilkins

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 02:04:08 am »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"
You're not expecting much special to happen, are you?
They're using uranium projectiles nowadays because it's heavy. Still, for a dwarven shotgun lead or gold would fare better.
They're using uranium projectiles because they undergo ablation under high heat and pressure instead of deformation which most other metals undergo.
---
I'm all for nuclear blast as something mad wizards should be able to accomplish, as an extremely poetic and innovative way of destroying the region. They can summon demons, so why not enrich some uranium? He he he.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 02:05:49 am by JohnieRWilkins »
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GoombaGeek

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 09:34:20 am »

If we do get uranium, the only thing I would use it for is making it into blocks, then loading them in a Dwarven Railgun and shooting them at Goblins.  Probably while shouting "Goblin tank sighted!  Range:  1500 yards!  Load, Sabot!"
You're not expecting much special to happen, are you?
They're using uranium projectiles nowadays because it's heavy. Still, for a dwarven shotgun lead or gold would fare better.
They're using uranium projectiles because they undergo ablation under high heat and pressure instead of deformation which most other metals undergo.
---
I'm all for nuclear blast as something mad wizards should be able to accomplish, as an extremely poetic and innovative way of destroying the region. They can summon demons, so why not enrich some uranium? He he he.
Then the wizard should also be able to do some much easier tasks like make pure titanium and aluminium out of ilmenite and bauxite, because now he's magicking individual atoms :O

Hell, make wizards your advanced geological processes. Who needs electricity when you have magic?

"We've just gotten another truckload of sylvite from the dwarves. I want you to extract all the caesium from it before noon."
"Please! I have a family!"
"Not anymore!"
"Noooooo!"
"And when you're done with the caesium, separate out the caesium-133 and put a tally on this paper for every time one of the atoms vibrates."
"Eh?"
"I expect you to have 9,192,631,770 tallies every second. Go!"

It would be nice to see industrial magic, though.
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JohnieRWilkins

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Re: The smart uranium suggestion
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 11:33:29 am »

I think it'd be a really interesting and unexplored approach to magic.

Instead of summoning obvious fireballs at his enemies, a wizard would make a "wand" of mass destruction, which shoots "bolts" of fragmentation. Which is actually a shoulder held hollow tube that shoots exploding rockets to detonate squads of enemies at a time.
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