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[King Mir]

This discussion was started in the Future of the Fortress Thread, but is out of place there, so a separate thread is needed.

Do you think it's worthwile for Toady to accept Bitcoin donations?

[Neonivek]

Nope, it is definately not worth it.

[AutomataKittay]

Not really worth the probable issues.

[Loud Whispers]

Well what are the pros/issues? Otherwise [default:no]

[CaptainArchmage]

If Toady accepts bitcoin donations, it means people who use bitcoins and dislike paypal may start donating, which means more donations assuming those people play Dwarf Fortress.

Bitcoin values fluctuate, and given there's a cap on the number of bitcoins in existence this might cause deflation in the future. This will be a good thing for Toady, but it might be in the long term.

There's also an issue with bitcoin exchange, which can be difficult or expensive with bank wires and the possibility for banks to block transactions to the exchange companies (I looked up bitcoin exchange and found this has happened). It may also be time consuming to do the exchanges and there's only two people working on Dwarf Fortress at the moment.

I think Toady should accept bitcoin donations because of the increased number of donations. More bitcoin donations doesn't mean fewer donations in dollars. It would be a good idea to accept bitcoins for a month or two and see whether it causes a real problem with logistics, and if it does cause a real problem he can drop the support.

I also think Toady should allow donations through Google Checkout. This is probably easier than dealing with bitcoins.

[AutomataKittay]

Well what are the pros/issues? Otherwise [default:no]

Pro:
More donation

Con:
Extremely unstable exchange rate compared to most currency
Lack of legal protection and oversight on the exchanges
Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )
Not very many people using it in first place
Possibly being shut down once government figure out a way to do it ( grey area due to it's statue as secondary currency )

While interesting, I don't think it's worth the issues currently.

...

I also think Toady should allow donations through Google Checkout. This is probably easier than dealing with bitcoins.

This sounds like an interesting idea, considering it does deals with legal currency and is reputately more friendly than paypal. Not sure if there're enough people using it to justify it, though, but I'd offer it as an alternative to paypal if the overhead's low enough.

[Helgoland]

Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )

Just out of academic curiosity - how would one do money laundering using bitcoins?

[AutomataKittay]

Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )

Just out of academic curiosity - how would one do money laundering using bitcoins?

Same as every other currency, really. Just with an extra step of converting to an currency that's even more suspicious.

[Helgoland]

I've never done the usual way - a bit more detail? Pwease?

[AutomataKittay]

I've never done the usual way - a bit more detail? Pwease?

No, for sake of keeping this thread nice and not so suspicious. You can check out wiki or just google it if you really want to

[King Mir]

Well what are the pros/issues? Otherwise [default:no]

Pro:
More donation

Con:
Extremely unstable exchange rate compared to most currency
Lack of legal protection and oversight on the exchanges
Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )
Not very many people using it in first place
Possibly being shut down once government figure out a way to do it ( grey area due to it's statue as secondary currency )

While interesting, I don't think it's worth the issues currently.

None of those issues matter for accepting donations in bitcoins. They're reasons why maybe people should not invest in bitcoins, but that's not what's being talked about.

As I see it, the only Con is that it's another online account that has personal and bank information. The pro is convenience to any donors who would prefer to donate bitcoins rather than dollars. That's it.

[MrWiggles]

I dont think Bitcoins will will be noticeable, sustainable source of donations.

[King Mir]

Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )

Just out of academic curiosity - how would one do money laundering using bitcoins?

Bitcoin "wallets" are not traceable to a person, so it is impossible to trace from whom, or in exchange for what services bitcoins were used for in the past. In this regard they are like cash.

[AutomataKittay]

Well what are the pros/issues? Otherwise [default:no]

Pro:
More donation

Con:
Extremely unstable exchange rate compared to most currency
Lack of legal protection and oversight on the exchanges
Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )
Not very many people using it in first place
Possibly being shut down once government figure out a way to do it ( grey area due to it's statue as secondary currency )

While interesting, I don't think it's worth the issues currently.

None of those issues matter for accepting donations in bitcoins. They're reasons why maybe people should not invest in bitcoins, but that's not what's being talked about.

As I see it, the only Con is that it's another online account that has personal and bank information. The pro is convenience to any donors who would prefer to donate bitcoins rather than dollars. That's it.

So you dismisses my cons as rather unimportant? Those are wee bit of an concern for actually getting the money into bank. Hell, just having the feds a bit bug-eyed at it is probably a good reason to think twice.

Then again, the few bitcoin devotees I've spoken to declare it to be the holy grail of freedom and ignore issues like lack of security in exchanges and unstable currency market making it pretty much impossible to do a fair currency exchange. Maybe y'all should stick to having gold pieces sent around, it'd be a lot more stable and fair exchange. And probably less traceable

Exchanges can be blocked from currency transfer, out of concern of illegimate earning ( due to bitcoin's common association, banks are legally obligated to block any illegal/gambling sites from exchanging currency )

Just out of academic curiosity - how would one do money laundering using bitcoins?

Bitcoin "wallets" are not traceable to a person, so it is impossible to trace from whom, or in exchange for what services bitcoins were used for in the past. In this regard they are like cash.

It can be traced, actually, if the government have enough warranties or access to server/network logs. But that's usually a waste of time for them, when stings are more productive, or just looking at which site's been gone to, for illegal purpose, which's unrelated to bitcoins. There are other ways to do it better, really, than some online service

[therahedwig]

Ah, how about http://flattr.com/?

The GIMP guys implemented it and thought that it wouldn't really give them more than 2 cents, turns out after three months they received 800 times the amount they expected.