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[darknessofthenight]

I think that toady said that goblins are placed by demons. I think that could imply that orcs are demonic in origin. I am totally fine with imps but i see them as being like fire imps but with a random effect like a syndrome, webs or throwing dust.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Goblins aren't stuck in Hell.
If demons could give orcs steel armor, why don't they wear steel armor?

And the imps were a comparison of what the Hell-orcs would be--minor demons.

[10ebbor10]

Yeah, Orcs aren't traditionally hell based creatures. I agree with adding demon minions, but there are better options than calling them orcs

[runetrantor]

I must have a bugged game, because I once opened Hell just to see what would happen (and if things went south I would simply reload a backup) and I stopped the invasion with a simply, normal mineral wall.
I designed my magma sea area tunnel entrances to be a corridor, a channeled strip, and just at the border of it, a door (So basically a ramp, and just by it, the door in the next z level).
I breached Hell, my dwarfs ran back into the main fort, and I locked the door leading to the breached adamantite spire, and for extra safety, I built a marble wall behind this door.
Demons just stayed in the now abandoned tunnels happily without ever breaching my 'impervious' defenses...

[Orange Wizard]

That's not a bug. Demons have the [BUILDINGDESTROYER] tag, so they would be able to smash the door down. But the marble wall is a construction, not a building, and is thus indestructible to the hordes of demons.
This also means their pathfinding AI cannot path into your fortress, so they'll just sit around and not try going anywhere.

[Neonivek]

Goblins aren't stuck in Hell.
If demons could give orcs steel armor, why don't they wear steel armor?

And the imps were a comparison of what the Hell-orcs would be--minor demons.

Because demons are HUGE! Steel armor that could fit even one demon would be monumentally expencive and the forge that could even attempt to create it would be a stunning feat of engineering.

[Aquillion]

The underlying interesting part of this suggestion is that it might be nice to have some degree of...  I hesitate to say "plot", because that implies something too scripted.  More like "plot hooks" -- stuff intended for players to write their own plots around.  It'd be nice to have a direction to go in once you've pierced Hell beyond just "lose and die" and "beat back the demons, colonize hell."

Which isn't to say that it should be easier to beat back the demon than it is now; what I mean is that there should be stuff to do after you've done it -- perhaps interesting stuff in hell for dwarves and adventurers to strive to capture and bring back, maybe increasingly dangerous named demons.  I'm not sure.

[Orange Wizard]

The underlying interesting part of this suggestion is that it might be nice to have some degree of...  I hesitate to say "plot", because that implies something too scripted.  More like "plot hooks" -- stuff intended for players to write their own plots around.  It'd be nice to have a direction to go in once you've pierced Hell beyond just "lose and die" and "beat back the demons, colonize hell."

Which isn't to say that it should be easier to beat back the demon than it is now; what I mean is that there should be stuff to do after you've done it -- perhaps interesting stuff in hell for dwarves and adventurers to strive to capture and bring back, maybe increasingly dangerous named demons.  I'm not sure.

The Forgotten Hellbeast Albel Limulid has come! A gigantic fiery worm. Its ecru scales undulate rhythmically. Now you will know what demons fear!

[runetrantor]

I kind of assumed the wall part, but they never took the door down either, since I built it according to some tips in the wiki about stopping destroyers, something about not destroying things on other z levels.

So if what I did is possible, then what is the idea here? Actually seal Hell completely rather than block a section of the fort? Because I also once just built floors over the hole to Hell, inside the adamantite spire and it also worked.

[darknessofthenight]

That's the problem. Now you build a wall then your safe. This thread is designed to come up with an alternative.

[Baccar Wozat]

What do dwarves fear more than the depths?

THE HEIGHTS.

Maybe once Hell is annexed, about 20z levels above the surface, a mysterious cloud appears.

Maybe you could have something "Heavenly", or maybe you could have a badass giant in a sky castle or something.

Another idea: What about a fourth dimension? We've only had three dimensions in DF for a short time...

Maybe the demons would guard the portal to another realm of even more sinister dangers.

The latter seems too complicated to implement though, unless it was a specially-made procedural world. And just try to keep track of two realms at once...

There's LOTS of great ideas still unused though.

[Orange Wizard]

That's the problem. Now you build a wall then your safe. This thread is designed to come up with an alternative.

Next release is, IIRC, including construction destroyers. I assume demons would get this power as well as rams and catapults,

[10ebbor10]

That's the problem. Now you build a wall then your safe. This thread is designed to come up with an alternative.

Next release is, IIRC, including construction destroyers. I assume demons would get this power as well as rams and catapults,

Don't think so. The only thing similair is the destruction of towns and such by goblins and the like, but that's just an off map event. Can't go and see them actually destroying the place.

[Orange Wizard]

That's the problem. Now you build a wall then your safe. This thread is designed to come up with an alternative.

Next release is, IIRC, including construction destroyers. I assume demons would get this power as well as rams and catapults,

Don't think so. The only thing similair is the destruction of towns and such by goblins and the like, but that's just an off map event. Can't go and see them actually destroying the place.

I thought it was intended to be an improvement to sieges?

Uh, right. I'll leave that there because it's rather funny that I said that.

[Cool Guy]

Another idea: What about a fourth dimension? We've only had three dimensions in DF for a short time...

Time Traveling Dwarfs! By Armok, It is Genius! We will now have dwarfs that can drink their boozes and drink them again at the exact same date in time!