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Author Topic: New digging designation: Carve creek  (Read 2486 times)

Robosaur

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New digging designation: Carve creek
« on: November 16, 2012, 05:13:16 pm »

Using carve creek on the ground will create a small trench that water can flow through from freely without spilling over. Carving it into a wall will create a small spout, allowing you to create small creeks out of lava and water from a much larger source. Mechanisms and/or metal plating may be required for higher pressure sources, though.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 06:59:13 pm »

Carving a shallow trench into the ground sounds neat, but why can't you just channel?
You can use fortifications for the "spout."
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Robosaur

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 12:35:42 am »

you can't walk over channels, and they affect the Z level beneath them.
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Putnam

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 01:33:45 am »

Couldn't you just mine on the level below without channeling?

Boea

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 01:46:54 am »

I think this harkens back to an older suggestion where we had gutters, and ruts in the flor that could be filled with 1/7 fluids, or other things like gore.

From what I am reading, the guy wants to be able to carve out brooks, or something more shallow than a brook, and have it flow with water, or the blood of our enemies.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 08:39:25 am »

you can't walk over channels, and they affect the Z level beneath them.
They create ramps. Affecting the z-level below is a good point, but how thick are floors that they can hold 1/7 water without digging to the next level anyways?
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Revanchist

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 02:24:06 pm »

I'd assume 1/7th of a block deep, personally. Although I'm not the sort of person that really investigates that stuff.
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AutomataKittay

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 02:29:58 pm »

Seems to be a channel with grate on top of it's what being asked to me.

I don't know how a ditch would work within DF, as well as seems like it'd not be very useful with just 1/7 of water. Well, until there're mechanism to allow water not to evaporate so easily.
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Silverionmox

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 06:45:14 pm »

Using carve creek on the ground will create a small trench that water can flow through from freely without spilling over. Carving it into a wall will create a small spout, allowing you to create small creeks out of lava and water from a much larger source. Mechanisms and/or metal plating may be required for higher pressure sources, though.
Ramps currently represent all partial excavations. Since dwarves are a bit more careful while digging ramps, it can effectively do what you apparently want it to do though you might want to grate them over. Anything smaller that still carries liquids would be a kind of pipe iMO. Bear in mind that in real life as well most pipes require digging out the ground as well, what would be the difference?
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knutor

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 06:58:09 pm »

This reminds me of a very old suggestion.  May have been by me.  *shrug* 

To allow us to grow farms on wooden floors and roads. 

And for the wooden floors and roads to absorb water, like a murky pool.  It would add a much needed dynamic to surface rainfall gathering, which fails to be present in current DF releases. 

I see no reason to have rough roads disintegrate away into nothingness.  Instead, why not allow them to pool rain water.  Sincerely, Knutor
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 05:57:57 pm »

If you muddy wood floors, you can farm on them. As paved roads are buildings, there are technical limitations which keep them from being on the same tile as a farm. Dirt roads eventually decay into nothingness because they aren't anything, they're just pulling up the plants and smoothing the soil. AFAIK, paved roads don't disintegrate over time.
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Damiac

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 09:13:49 am »

I'm pretty sure he wants to keep the current and lower Z levels as is.  As in, a modification to the tile, without breaking through to the tile below.  So it's the same as engraving, but you're just engraving a small channel, rather than a picture of cheese.

It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me, it'd be nice to have a small water channel without having to reserve space on the Z level below.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 09:16:35 am »

Again, where would the channel go? How think is a floor?
And what happens to keep a channel from overflowing, and what happens when it does?
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knutor

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 12:38:01 pm »

*thumbs up*  The game needs this.  Especially in the rainy environments.
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Damiac

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Re: New digging designation: Carve creek
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 01:18:43 pm »

Again, where would the channel go? How think is a floor?
And what happens to keep a channel from overflowing, and what happens when it does?

The channel goes in the floor.  How thick a floor is is a fair question, and really the most pertinent to this discussion.  For this to work, a floor must have enough thickness to hold some water without going all the way through to the next Z level.  If a tile is 3X3X3 meters, with each tile containing a wall and floor, I suppose a floor could be 1.5 meters deep.  So if you cut a 1 meter deep hole into that floor, making it maybe 1/2 meter wide, you could still hold a fair amount of water. So 1/3 as wide as a normal tile, 1/6 as deep, meaning a full channel holds 1/18 the amount of water that a normal 7/7 full tile.  Not much water, but still good enough to move water around between normal sized pools.
However, with the way water currently works, a 7/7 full tile with a floor seems to hold the same amount of water as a 7/7 full tile without a floor.  This suggests a floor has no thickness whatsoever.  But that makes no sense anyway.  So I don't care to respect that thickness in my calculations...

Water at the same Z level as the floor wouldn't overflow.  If water pressure is too high, due to being fed from greater Z level than the floor, water puddles on the floor (1/7 deep to start), and from there behaves like any other water.  With such a limited depth, you'd get a low flow rate, meaning it really wouldn't be able to deal with any pressure without overflowing.  However channeled (creek carved by the OP's original description) floors wouldn't have to solely rely on evaporation to drain, so long as the water had somewhere to go. 

If you could carve these "creeks" into walls, you could create a flow orifice, meaning a fully flooded room with a "creek" hole leading into an empty room would flood the empty room much more slowly than a full sized carved fortification.

So I say, yeah, that'd be cool to have in the game.  But I guess you sort of need to define a floor's thickness for it to make any sense.
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