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Author Topic: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle  (Read 4711 times)

ECrownofFire

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2012, 08:37:24 am »
Hostess had a LOT of problems previous to the strike. The management was basically dead-set on running it into the ground no matter what.

Now it will get bought by somebody who isn't completely incompetent (Kraft, Nestle, etc.), Twinkies will still be made, and the world will go on.



Other than that, mandatory unions are a terrible thing, etc.
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Leafsnail

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2012, 09:50:17 am »
Quote from: Knight of Fools on November 17, 2012, 04:02:04 am
It frustrates me to no end that high-up execs get massive bonuses while workers are left with absolutely nothing when the dust settles. There's no easy solution to it, either.
I have a couple of suggestsions.  Not easy, but it could help.

1. Laws to prevent CEOs and the like making a killing from robbing their company blind.  Maybe forcing them to repay their recent salary or making them liable for the company's debts if they close it down (so basically give them an incentive to not want the company closed down).
2. Make anti-union busting laws.  The union in this case was completely justified and may have been able to stop it, except that it just so happened the law was set so they couldn't win.
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misko27

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2012, 10:50:56 am »
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kaijyuu

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2012, 11:04:01 am »
bwahaha

Socialized twinkies!
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

GreatJustice

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2012, 11:04:44 am »
Its worth mentioning that the CEO was not making that much money by American standards, that the pay cuts proposed affected both executives and workers, and that the benefit packages were enormous in comparison. Had the executives worked at minimum wage they still wouldn't have put a dent in that. Not to mention, the deal would have also given the union 2 seats on the board and a 25% stake in the company, certainly not a bad deal.
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Quote from: greatorder on September 11, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

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Leafsnail

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2012, 11:12:25 am »
And the 80% pay rise is justifiable because...
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kaijyuu

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2012, 11:18:19 am »
I think GJ is saying that pay raise wouldn't of made all that much a difference. Not justified, of course, but looking at the big picture their salaries weren't going to make or break the company.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

GreatJustice

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2012, 11:18:47 am »
Quote from: Leafsnail on November 17, 2012, 11:12:25 am
And the 80% pay rise is justifiable because...

Because he was getting paid 10% of what the average American CEO makes per worker beforehand?

Certainly it wasn't a good time for it, but the pay rise he was largely insignificant to the well being of the company compared to the benefit cuts.
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Quote from: greatorder on September 11, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

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Leafsnail

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2012, 11:24:59 am »
If you're running a company into the ground then 10% of what the average American CEO makes is already way too much.

And if he did care about the wellbeing of the company more than his own pay package he'd cut his own salary too.  Even if it has a relatively small impact (well, a way larger impact than any other individual worker's pay cut because he was being paid more than them) it'd at least send out a message that he was prepared to fix the company.  As it was he was essentially saying "Well I want you to take a massive cut that will seriously impact your quality of life, while I take a far larger rise that will slightly improve mine!  Whee!  Wait why are you annoyed about this?" which is not something you do if you don't want to piss everybody the fuck off.

That he was prepared to share the carcass of the company with 2 high up union members doesn't really change that.
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Descan

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2012, 11:35:02 am »
If Twinkies go away, what will I call my preferred body type and boyfriend? D:
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GreatJustice

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2012, 11:39:47 am »
He had literally just been hired. It's not like he was taking his cash after years of hurting the company and making a break for it. Under the circumstances, the offer wasn't THAT bad, considering how many stakeholders were involved.

Certainly, management is to blame too, but nearly everyone involved made bad decisions.

An interesting, somewhat in-depth analysis:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-16/hostess-liquidation-curious-cast-characters-twinkie-tumbles
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Quote from: greatorder on September 11, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

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GlyphGryph

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2012, 01:31:02 pm »
EVEN IF the union had acted poorly here, I find it hilariously hard to justify that "the corporations owners had done a go(o)d job".

A company where the owners do a good job doesn't go bankrupt multiple times in a half dozen years.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 02:19:58 pm by GlyphGryph »
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dei

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2012, 03:08:53 pm »
I just hope someone buys Hostess so I can still get Zingers on occasion. I don't have anything else to contribute to this conversation other than that.
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Neonivek

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2012, 07:56:28 pm »
Quote from: dei on November 17, 2012, 03:08:53 pm
I just hope someone buys Hostess so I can still get Zingers on occasion. I don't have anything else to contribute to this conversation other than that.

Honestly this affects me in the least.

The ONLY thing Hostes made that I eat are what you call "Moon Pies" or "Wagon wheels" and I RARELY if ever get one.
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Darvi

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Re: A quick summary of the Hostess debacle
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2012, 07:57:31 pm »
Quote from: Neonivek on November 17, 2012, 07:56:28 pm
Honestly this affects me in the least.

I got you beat, I haven't even heard of them until this thread.
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