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[Fish is yum]

I was trying to think of what was in DF that nobody seemed to have a topic about yet, and after searching for a hour I find no topics on this. Studies have shown that stress can effect natal development and is one of the probable causes of learning disabilities in RL. Why not have it in DF too? Stress such as too much physical exertion and traumatic events causes all sorts of problems (usually through a raise in cortisol in the brain) which then effects other chems (neurotransmitters) which in turn effect development.

Of course, it would be different for dwarves, as I feel that the stress from being away from work should be what causes problems, along with other things (goblin siege, starvation, elves in general, dehydration, lack of alcohol, etc.) I feel it would give yet another reason to keep your dwarves happy, because if you don't their kids will have problems. Still, that is not the only issue that could arise here. There is also the genetic qualities of learning disabilities, and how some are  thought to be caused by genes (ADHD). I don't know whether or not dwarves would have the same LDs as us (dyslexia, autism, ADHD, etc), but I feel that there should be some representation.

And having these wouldn't have to be a bad thing, an autistic dwarf could be a savant in say, weapon smithing or something. Just that there would be things that dwarves with disabilities would be good at, along with things that they are not (trade possibility to learn cheese making for easily learning mining). Still if people don't like that idea, than maybe just have them have their stats tweaked slightly because of it.

Just a thought.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Makes sense, I guess. Heck, I'd like to see autistic dwarves, although I'm interested in how ADHD would change their AI.

Is anyone else amused that a lack of alcohol seems to be as bad for dwarves as too much is for humans?

[Radiant_Phoenix]

Don't all (or at least most) programmed dwarven mental parameters already vary significantly?

[darknessofthenight]

yes but how do they effect game play beyond social skills

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

This may already be in.  Considering all of the dwarves who try to build a wall while standing on the same tile, along with other things.

Kidding aside, this does seem to be an interesting idea.  I'd like to see the !!Science!! on effects of Dwarven child care upon them. 

[Radiant_Phoenix]

yes but how do they effect game play beyond social skills

Well, presumably :SPATIAL_SENSE: matters...

We could probably have a token that would generate a statistical distribution of :SKILL_RATE:s, though.

Making the mother's state during pregnancy, and the dwarf's childhood, produce long-lasting effects on ATTRIBUTEs and SKILLs would be cool. A good money sink for a successful fortress, and another thing to spiral out of control to kill off fortresses that screw up.

[Neonivek]

Do all learning disabilities even apply to some mythical creatures or even matter?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why not? They still follow natural laws.

[Neonivek]

Why not? They still follow natural laws.

Because not all learning disabilities are shared.

[Damiac]

Suggestion Canceled: Already In

All my dwarves already have ADHD.  A good number of them seem to be sociopaths.  If anything, toady needs to implement non-brain damaged dwarves...

Kidding aside, I suppose it would make sense.  Toady might be horrified at the dwarven eugenics it inspires though....

[10ebbor10]

Why not? They still follow natural laws.

Because not all learning disabilities are shared.

I suppose dwarven foetusses would have a resistance to alcohol. Also, having the mother work outdoor would make the foetus more resistant to cave sickness, as well as other things.

[Fish is yum]

I suppose dwarven fetuses would have a resistance to alcohol. Also, having the mother work outdoor would make the fetus more resistant to cave sickness, as well as other things.

Yeah, that too. I was thinking of tying 'stress' to their 'happy thoughts', and sort of using that as a calculator to see if there would be developmental problems, and even then having it only really be calculating the likelihood of a dysfunction rather than the certainty. So the player would have a reason to keep his dwarves happy apart from tantrum spiral.

Well, presumably :SPATIAL_SENSE: matters...

We could probably have a token that would generate a statistical distribution of :SKILL_RATE:s, though.

Making the mother's state during pregnancy, and the dwarf's childhood, produce long-lasting effects on ATTRIBUTEs and SKILLs would be cool. A good money sink for a successful fortress, and another thing to spiral out of control to kill off fortresses that screw up.

That was my thought, though I was also thinking in terms of if you do get a bunch of mentally impaired dwarves, it wouldn't necessarily mean the end. You could try to strategically use them to your advantage. So if you figured it all out, you could take Urst and exploit his love of building toys to make lots of money, but you have to remember to keep him under supervision, because he might pull the lever to let the hoard of goblins or whatever in the front door because it 'looks shiny'.

Still I am more happy at the initial response to my idea than anything else to be honest. I was thinking that there would be dwarf specific disabilities, not just the usual human ones. Such as an aversion to stone, which would need counseling to combat because that is very debilitating and not normal for dwarves, or a mental problem leading to an elf-like love of trees. This could get psychology out into the open for dwarves, and you could do it by simply changing the animal trainer around I think. I dont know coding, but it seems like you could just transfer the 'untamed' through 'masterfully trained' stuff with wild animals over, except rename them to 'cured' and that kind of thing. And if their counseling is cut short they could go into regression or something.

Lets get back to talking about Savants though. Would a dwarven savant have a higher chance of making artifacts? Or, would the savant just easily become a masterwork mason or something? I just was thinking of another thing this would lead into, talking about spacial sense. Would dwarves with low spacial sense need glasses? I feel that some of the stats should effect more than social stuff. Then about eugenics, would dwarven children with disabilities get picked on by the 'normal' dwarven children? I think they would, but that is coming from a human perspective, and the dwarven psychology isn't completely fleshed out yet. I guess a half assed way to do this would be to save the way path finding and dwarven interactions are right now and then apply it to dwarves in later versions as a form of disability. I would be disappointed though, cause that would be very unlike Toady, because so far he has been doing what sounds like the work of ten men, if not ten dwarves. Keep up the good work man, awesome game

[10ebbor10]

I don't think spatial sense is tied in with how well you see. Just how good you can reason in a 3D environement. Ie not getting lost and stuff.

[Fish is yum]

I don't think spatial sense is tied in with how well you see. Just how good you can reason in a 3D environement. Ie not getting lost and stuff.

EDITED: sorry, my dyslexia worked up and i didn't see your Ie bit xP

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why not? They still follow natural laws.

Because not all learning disabilities are shared.

Huh? What do you mean?

Anyways, I see no reason why dwarves should not be hit with the same issues humans are.