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[Graknorke]

So, what do you say about rape and beating? That can make men's problems small as a dust compared to women's problems. If you want to make genders equal you gotta defend the weak (no offense) gender.

That men have those problems too, except men are pressured into not reporting rape/domestic abuse because of society's expectation of them to be strong, and the perception that reporting these happening to them would make them weak.

[Neonivek]

As far as I saw it, Feminism related to elevation of females, and Chauvinism related to the elevation of males.

There is actually a word that is the opposite of Chauvinism and it isn't feminism but I can never remember the word. Chauvinism is about the clear supperiority of males.

Feminism can be anywhere from women being supperior to being equals.

[penguinofhonor]

So, what do you say about rape and beating? That can make men's problems small as a dust compared to women's problems. If you want to make genders equal you gotta defend the weak (no offense) gender.

That men have those problems too, except men are pressured into not reporting rape/domestic abuse because of society's expectation of them to be strong, and the perception that reporting these happening to them would make them weak.

Yeah, you don't know how the statistics are collected. Report rates are hardly ever used to measure crime rates, instead they use victimization surveys that ask people if a crime was committed against them, whether they reported it or not. Tons of crimes get revealed this way, and men still report disproportionately fewer rapes.

[Glowcat]

So, what do you say about rape and beating? That can make men's problems small as a dust compared to women's problems. If you want to make genders equal you gotta defend the weak (no offense) gender.

That men have those problems too, except men are pressured into not reporting rape/domestic abuse because of society's expectation of them to be strong, and the perception that reporting these happening to them would make them weak.

Most feminists I know point out the negative effects the patriarchy imposes on males as well. One example is the effect you just gave, and the macho demanding hypermasculine culture in general. A few even talk about circumcision because it ties into bodily autonomy.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, you don't know how the statistics are collected. Report rates are hardly ever used to measure crime rates, instead they use victimization surveys that ask people if a crime was committed against them, whether they reported it or not. Tons of crimes get revealed this way, and men still report disproportionately fewer rapes.

The US actually has a pretty high male rape rate though due to prisons.  I think that may be less patriarchy and more a screwed up attitude towards criminals though.

[Neonivek]

Yeah, you don't know how the statistics are collected. Report rates are hardly ever used to measure crime rates, instead they use victimization surveys that ask people if a crime was committed against them, whether they reported it or not. Tons of crimes get revealed this way, and men still report disproportionately fewer rapes.

The US actually has a pretty high male rape rate though due to prisons.  I think that may be less patriarchy and more a screwed up attitude towards criminals though.

Most people attribute this to the fact that people believe what happens inside a prison is part of the punishment. This is why low prison funding and poorly run prisons are not really high in anyones agenda. Since a prison where prisons beat on other prisoners and rape them is considered a good functional prison where people get what they deserve.

Which I personally find deplorable but what you gonna do?

[penguinofhonor]

Prisons being fucked up aren't really an issue of sexism. Honestly it's more related to racism due to the whole deal with black incarceration, as well as class.

[Forums User Meat Wizard]

So, what do you say about rape and beating? That can make men's problems small as a dust compared to women's problems. If you want to make genders equal you gotta defend the weak (no offense) gender.

That men have those problems too, except men are pressured into not reporting rape/domestic abuse because of society's expectation of them to be strong, and the perception that reporting these happening to them would make them weak.

Look, the point isn't that men don't have problems, it's that their problems aren't really approaching anywhere near the level of women everywhere. Wading into a fight about equality and arguing about men's rights is akin to walking into someone's funeral and complaining that your favourite animes was cancelled why isn't anyone sympathising with me??? You have problems, but none approaching anything anywhere near the systematic, cultural, and financial problems that women have. Take into consideration that most of the so-called inequalities that MRAs like to spout off are nothing more than anecdotal nonsense about things that have probably never happened on any appreciably noticable scale, and it just comes across as nothing more than petty WELL AS A MAN WHY AREN'T MY PROBLEMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT OF FEMALES? whining.

[scriver]

It's irrelevant anyway, because of the simple reason that feminism does not ignore men's issues.

[Neonivek]

It's irrelevant anyway, because of the simple reason that feminism does not ignore men's issues.

Well some do but in the same way that I ignore the grass outside when I am concentrating on washing my fork.

I do notice a lot of hostility if you EVER refer to the double standard as a double edged standard.

[Graknorke]

So, what do you say about rape and beating? That can make men's problems small as a dust compared to women's problems. If you want to make genders equal you gotta defend the weak (no offense) gender.

That men have those problems too, except men are pressured into not reporting rape/domestic abuse because of society's expectation of them to be strong, and the perception that reporting these happening to them would make them weak.

Look, the point isn't that men don't have problems, it's that their problems aren't really approaching anywhere near the level of women everywhere. Wading into a fight about equality and arguing about men's rights is akin to walking into someone's funeral and complaining that your favourite animes was cancelled why isn't anyone sympathising with me??? You have problems, but none approaching anything anywhere near the systematic, cultural, and financial problems that women have. Take into consideration that most of the so-called inequalities that MRAs like to spout off are nothing more than anecdotal nonsense about things that have probably never happened on any appreciably noticable scale, and it just comes across as nothing more than petty WELL AS A MAN WHY AREN'T MY PROBLEMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT OF FEMALES? whining.

When did I ever say that anybody's problems should be more important that anybody else's?
But anyway, while we're at "X's problems are worse than Y's, therefore we should focus solely on X.", then why are we looking at western society at all? Women in western society have it way better culturally and financially than, say, the essentially homeless in India who get by by selling counterfeited books to passers by. Surely we should drop anything to do with western society and focus on a way to change the system to allow these people a chance at a comfortable life?

[Forums User Meat Wizard]

Gosh, you're right! Let's instead focus on the vasy majority of people worldwide who are poor and culturally discriminated against in their own countries. In fact, this is such an important movement, let's name this bold new ideal after the vast-majority group who is being affected as such. This new movement would seek as a bold new sweeping motion helping to highlight the plights of this group and raise their status up to those of others around them, helping establish equality through not providing bias and privelage, but simply granting them the base rights that they deserve and have been denied them for generations.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the joke is the vasy majority of the world's poor and oppressed are women and this movement is called feminism

[Neonivek]

the joke is the vasy majority of the world's poor and oppressed are women and this movement is called feminism

Wait what? Who said... ohh wait... I see what you did there.

How unhillarious.

This is a very simple statement to make. Everyone who is poor and a woman is oppressed, a male in the same society isn't oppressed. Thus the vast majority of people in that country who is poor AND oppressed are women.

It is a very complex statement at heart if you were to deconstruct it and goes into what oppression really is.

[Forums User Meat Wizard]

It's not that complex at all if you took my saying 'the vast majority of poor people' to mean 'literally all women everywhere are always oppressed and no men ever are anywhere' as you seem to have. There are poor people and oppressed people everywhere, it's just that statisically you're far likely to be both and a woman.

We've already had enough ridiculous hyperbole and goalpost-shifting in this thread.

[Neonivek]

It's not that complex at all if you took my saying 'the vast majority of poor people' to mean 'literally all women everywhere are always oppressed and no men ever are anywhere' as you seem to have.

Hardly I took it as "If there is a situation where both men and women are poor, then the women are the ones being oppressed by the poor men" which is what you meant.