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[Flying Dice]

Which is, incidentally, a good part of why I find it so much easier both to converse and befriend people online: I'm terrible (and too lazy) to deal with all of the superficial small talk before I can even figure out if I'm going to like spending time with someone.

[Zrk2]

"Give a man a mask and he will show you his face." -Oscar Wilde

Oh, hey.  Never seen this quote before, but it's the best summation I've ever seen of why I love internet culture.  For all its flaws, it's also humanity laid bare.  It's like peering straight into the skull cavity of civilization.  This is also why I make friends easier online than off.  You get to know people pretty quickly.  When you meet someone in meatspace, you learn all the shallow stuff first, and build up to the deeper things.  You have to pierce a fortress of small talk and taboos and prejudices. You can know someone for weeks and know nothing about them beyond their demographics, their occupation, and their social habits.  Online, people cut straight to each other's thoughts and emotions on subjects they actually care about, and the interaction is completely on that level, without shallow judgments like skin color, weight, body language, or style of dress to get in the way.

I think internet relations and real-life relations exist in inherently different manners. On the internet there are no immediate repercussions for your actions and, to a large extent, no social mores to conform to, so you can get a good idea of the "bedrock" of a person, but you will miss out on many different little things, which often go into creating a friendship. Meanwhile real-life relationships are the opposite. You get a lot more non-verbal subconscious information, but then it's all already filtered for you. So on the internet you can see a person as they are, but in real life you see the person as they are in society.

I'll leave the decision on which is more important up to the reader.

[scriver]

"Give a man a mask and he will show you his face." -Oscar Wilde

Oh, hey.  Never seen this quote before, but it's the best summation I've ever seen of why I love internet culture.  For all its flaws, it's also humanity laid bare.  It's like peering straight into the skull cavity of civilization.  This is also why I make friends easier online than off.  You get to know people pretty quickly.  When you meet someone in meatspace, you learn all the shallow stuff first, and build up to the deeper things.  You have to pierce a fortress of small talk and taboos and prejudices. You can know someone for weeks and know nothing about them beyond their demographics, their occupation, and their social habits.  Online, people cut straight to each other's thoughts and emotions on subjects they actually care about, and the interaction is completely on that level, without shallow judgments like skin color, weight, body language, or style of dress to get in the way.

Which is, incidentally, a good part of why I find it so much easier both to converse and befriend people online: I'm terrible (and too lazy) to deal with all of the superficial small talk before I can even figure out if I'm going to like spending time with someone.

...And probably much of the reason I have such trouble making friends online.

[kaijyuu]

Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of character being "who you are in the dark." The mask of anonymity shows people as they really are, online. However, be careful, as there are manipulative people (like me in my younger years) who can wear different masks, and be someone they're not.


When your personality is laid bare and up for scrutiny, I feel problems can be resolved much quicker. Wolves can hide in sheep's clothing in real life (and to some degree online, but a lesser degree).

...And probably much of the reason I have such trouble making friends online.

Do elaborate. Do you feel people dislike you when they see you as you "really are"?

[Korbac]

Everyone makes good points (yes, I'm a doormat.  )

As for 'seeing people as they really are' online, well, you get to know someone via the text they produce. And text is far more easily misinterpreted than gestures, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. Of course it's possible to misrepresent these things in person, but there's not much point if you're friends.

[scriver]

Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of character being "who you are in the dark." The mask of anonymity shows people as they really are, online. However, be careful, as there are manipulative people (like me in my younger years) who can wear different masks, and be someone they're not.


When your personality is laid bare and up for scrutiny, I feel problems can be resolved much quicker. Wolves can hide in sheep's clothing in real life (and to some degree online, but a lesser degree).

I feel it's more that we are all our masks. The one you wear in the dark is just the mask you wear so you don't have to face yourself.

...And probably much of the reason I have such trouble making friends online.

Do elaborate.

No.

[kaijyuu]

As for 'seeing people as they really are' online, well, you get to know someone via the text they produce. And text is far more easily misinterpreted than gestures, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. Of course it's possible to misrepresent these things in person, but there's not much point if you're friends.

Some of us are pretty bad at body language, so :X

The reason the internet works like that is due to the anonymity (or more specifically, lack of repercussions), not due to the method of communication. Text obviously isn't superior to anything else.

I feel it's more that we are all our masks. The one you wear in the dark is just the mask you wear so you don't have to face yourself.

Ah, I see. You're saying there's no situation where we lay our personality truly bare, and instead we just wear different masks for different situations (including in the dark). And not only that, that all our masks together are "us." I can sorta get behind that.

I'd still say how we act in situations with zero repercussions for our actions is the situation that shows the core of our personalities the most clearly.

...And probably much of the reason I have such trouble making friends online.

Do elaborate.

No.

Ah, that explains it enough for me. Open up a bit and you might have an easier time.

[Ogdibus]

Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of character being "who you are in the dark." The mask of anonymity shows people as they really are, online. However, be careful, as there are manipulative people (like me in my younger years) who can wear different masks, and be someone they're not.


When your personality is laid bare and up for scrutiny, I feel problems can be resolved much quicker. Wolves can hide in sheep's clothing in real life (and to some degree online, but a lesser degree).

I feel it's more that we are all our masks. The one you wear in the dark is just the mask you wear so you don't have to face yourself.

This bothers me at night when I'm trying to fall asleep.


Also...

I like nice guys.  I probably should have said that in my first post.  I like nice women,too.   Sometimes it's even mutual. :3

[dei]

I just want a female who is kind, gentle, and sensitive to my circumstances. One who might be willing to be the breadwinner while I stay at home and take care of the house and the kids. One who perhaps could coax me into trying new things in a gentle and considerate way while considering that psychologically I'm a nervous wreck unless hopped up on stimulants due to both past trauma and an unusual body chemistry that makes them have a reverse effect. I don't think I'm going to be able to find such a person anytime soon however.

I'm going to leave it at that since I don't have anything else to say that won't end up being slightly incendiary and I don't have anything to contribute to this conversation that isn't in some way. Goodnight.

[SalmonGod]

As for 'seeing people as they really are' online, well, you get to know someone via the text they produce. And text is far more easily misinterpreted than gestures, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. Of course it's possible to misrepresent these things in person, but there's not much point if you're friends.

Some of us are pretty bad at body language, so :X

The reason the internet works like that is due to the anonymity (or more specifically, lack of repercussions), not due to the method of communication. Text obviously isn't superior to anything else.

I do think there's a bit more to it than that.  #2 to anonymity is that people are more able and inclined to take their time when communicating via text.  There's no pressure to respond to something immediately, and you can read something several times at your leisure to be sure you understand it.  I think that alone clears up a ton of weirdness that tends to happen face-to-face.

[Solifuge]

I think people are generally more comfortable being who they are online. It acts as a safe space to learn who you are and express aspects of their personality, because if you're being insulted or criticized for an aspect of your interests or personality, you can remove yourself from that much more easily than you can in meatspace. Anonymity also doesn't expose you to as many long-term repercussions for your actions. However, that ability to shelter yourself from unpleasant things, such as legitimate but unpleasant criticism, can also make you less likely to seek to change or improve, and less beholden to externally-imposed responsibility (such as from laws or social mores), which as a result can inhibit your personal growth, and the development of deeper levels of personality.

To bring this back to the topic at hand, one of my most fulfilling relationships started with someone I first met online. We used the neutral space of the internet to get to know one another on a pretty deep level over the years, and visited whenever we could. Though it didn't work out in the long term, it was really nice to have had, and we stayed good friends afterward as well. Still, you definitely learn a lot more of the nuances behind people once you've been with them full-time, rather than in little spurts of communication... be it through phone calls, chat programs, letters, or what have you.

Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of character being "who you are in the dark." The mask of anonymity shows people as they really are, online.

I feel it's more that we are all our masks. The one you wear in the dark is just the mask you wear so you don't have to face yourself.

I think there's some truth to that. Personality is a thing we build for ourselves over time, both consciously and unconsciously. Our personalities are anchored around quirks and traits we've identified in ourselves, codes of conduct we opt into, and tags we label ourselves with, like Football Fan, History Buff, Birdwatcher, etc. I don't know if there is ultimately a "True" self underneath these masks we build up around ourselves, so much as a really basic and fundamental mask we use to anchor and guide ourselves... and when that gets challenged, we feel lost until we find or create a new one to provide us with direction.

[SalmonGod]

Now we're getting into Buddhist philosophy about the nature of the ego.

[Darvi]

Now we're getting into Buddhist philosophy about the nature of the ego.

B12 derails are like a box of chocolate. You never know what you get next.

[Korbac]

Many times I visit this forum I am amazed and humbled by the things I learn.

[Leafsnail]

Maybe LordBucket should've described his relationships as 'sadist' versus 'masochist'. It would've made less assumptions about essential gender roles (and by extension the gender binary) while being slightly more entertaining.

I agree.  I will retract all criticisms of LordBucket's theory if he starts doing this.