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[Teneb]

Extend.

Tylui: No posts for the whole day, ye scum?

[ToonyMan]

Extend.

[zombie urist]

Extend.

I'll throw in a vote for Dariush for now.

Deathsword seems really focused on MrCelt, though he has kinda been prodding Tylui. I'll be paying more attention to DS.

I really don't like Toony's reasons for voting UI on Day 1.

I'm not sure I really believe Shakerag's explanation, but what really bothers me is how I pretty much asked this question:

Also, Bookthras: Why did you decide to claim miller early after what happened in BYOR 9?

in one of my earlier posts.

Shakerag: Can you explain why you think Book is scum?

[Bookthras]

Busy weekend. Catching up with pending questions, I'll add thoughts after I've had a chance to reread.

Leaf's flip is weird, because that's a very townie role.

I agree with this. As much I am happy with UI's demise and flip, and as scummy as Leaf was, I don't think he was actually scum.

I think deathmillerness may be part of wuba's running theme this time, not only because of Leaf's flip but also because I am a death-miller myself, in addition to being a normal (inspection) miller. I have an auto ability that says I will show as mafia on inspect and on death, and that auto wouldn't be displayed on my death flip. However, after checking with wuba, that auto would display if I get role-copped before death, so if anyone has role-inspection powers, targeting me would confirm that.

Hey Bookthras, what do you think about the theory that scum will often FoS their scumbuddy and vote someone non-scum?

It's plausible, but not definitive. Scum will FoS and vote both buddies or not; FoSing/voting buddies is good for distance, FoS/votes on others are obviously necessary. It's good to keep an eye out, but I'd hardly call it evidence on its own.

Bookthras: I noticed you claimed miller again. Why did you choose to do so this time?

Bookthras: Why did you decide to claim miller early after what happened in BYOR 9?

What happened in BYOR9? The wagon on me then wasn't because of my claim, it was because Jim was dumb and Toaster was scum.  But since you're curious: As I said then, claiming miller at any point before an inspection is a valid strategy and a null-tell. I stand by that. Claiming first post is an interesting way to do it, though I still disagree with Toaster that it's the only correct play, or that second-post-or-later is in any way inferior or scummier than first-post.

It's a valid way to handle it, though, and so I may choose it; having different ways to approach a situation keeps the game fresh and makes one less predictable, which is always a good thing regardless of alignment. In this case, since I had that extra bit of millerness I mentioned above, I figured claiming the first part soon was the right way to approach the situation, and claim the second if there was reason for it, or if I predicted I might get killed (so people would know not to trust my flip). Leafsnail's fishy flip qualifies as "reason for it".

And yes, I forgot about the SK possibility. That doesn't change much: UI will still be forced to adhere to the town's wishes or get his ass lynched.

I'm good for a UI vote (holding it because hammertime), but I'm skeptical on the SK bit. I buy the Survivor claim, but it's still a good lynch.

Heh. I love being right. And gloating, yes, I also love gloating.


Extend, yes.

[Hapah]

I think deathmillerness may be part of wuba's running theme this time, not only because of Leaf's flip but also because I am a death-miller myself, in addition to being a normal (inspection) miller. I have an auto ability that says I will show as mafia on inspect and on death, and that auto wouldn't be displayed on my death flip. However, after checking with wuba, that auto would display if I get role-copped before death, so if anyone has role-inspection powers, targeting me would confirm that.

Man, I hope you're wrong about the theme. That'd be nasty as hell, at least for me. And what in the world do you keep submitting to get miller so often? (Don't have to answer that, but I will admit I'm curious).

Heh. I love being right. And gloating, yes, I also love gloating.

</3 . Does this make you break even for Jim's lynch in the last Paranormal?

So, people. Who do we vote for King? Seems like half the people haven't even posted since the day started, which isn't a good sign at all. I'm prefer to vote for anyone who voted UI yesterday (except maybe MrCelt).

[ToonyMan]

I really don't like Toony's reasons for voting UI on Day 1.

My bad?

I agree with this. As much I am happy with UI's demise and flip, and as scummy as Leaf was, I don't think he was actually scum.

Wow that's dumb Book.

I think deathmillerness may be part of wuba's running theme this time, not only because of Leaf's flip but also because I am a death-miller myself, in addition to being a normal (inspection) miller. I have an auto ability that says I will show as mafia on inspect and on death, and that auto wouldn't be displayed on my death flip. However, after checking with wuba, that auto would display if I get role-copped before death, so if anyone has role-inspection powers, targeting me would confirm that.

So you show up mafia on inspects and death?  Great.  We'll get the role-cops to inspect you tonight then!!  Bookthras.

Also nominating Hapah since he's here and Toaster ain't.

[Jack A T]

Ugh.  I wish more people would post.

Also nominating Hapah since he's here and Toaster ain't.

ToonyMan: That's all it takes for your vote for king?

General thought: I'm actually leaning against MrCelt being a mafioso.  His actions, while quite off-putting, were mostly incredibly stupid and dumb.  He doesn't feel like someone getting any advice in a scumchat.    MrCelt feels like a third party of some sort, most likely, with town less likely.  (To get a better read, I'd love to see that actual content he promised)

My top pick for mafioso is Tylui: under the immense pressure that comes from being the main target of a newbie's mediocre case, he panicked: this post had two "LOOK LOOK AT THESE OTHER PEOPLE" moments.  The first was the Dariush/Shakerag one, a blatant case of deflection where the attack on Shakerag had to be qualified and the attack on Dariush, as I already pointed out, had no basis in reality.  The second was the attempt to push Deathsword into focusing on Leafsnail and UI.

I really wanted Tylui's reaction to my calm questioning of his Dariush case before going on this full attack (I could see many ways likely responses would have helped my case), but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Not sure who I want to be king yet.  I want some basic information first:

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

[zombie urist]

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

At this time and until MrCelt clears, I'll probably lynch him. Dunno about the last part. Probably not much, unless some extraordinary claims happen.

Bookthras: Why didn't you claim death-miller in your first post also?

[Bookthras]

That'd be nasty as hell, at least for me.

It'd be nasty, yes, but why "at least for you"?

And what in the world do you keep submitting to get miller so often?

Often? This is only my second time ever, as far as I recall. BYOR9 I submitted Stephen Colbert, which in a convoluted way I can see how it could be construed as millerlike. This time it's an even more unlikely leap, so it's between wuba and his potent medication how he came up with that, nothing to do with me.

Heh. I love being right. And gloating, yes, I also love gloating.

</3 . Does this make you break even for Jim's lynch in the last Paranormal?

Break even? That implies one is keeping score. I am not*. I gloat whenever I win, however often or seldom that happens. Winning is fun. When I lose, I try to do so both graciously and theatrically. Losing is also fun. Though admittedly less so. Scores are for sissies.

I agree with this. As much I am happy with UI's demise and flip, and as scummy as Leaf was, I don't think he was actually scum.

Wow that's dumb Book.

Which part? For clarity, in case it was misunderstood: Leafsnail was scummy, I thought he was scum D1 and said so. After his flip, what with it being very town-like, lack of other kills, and my knowledge of there being death-millers, I now no longer think he was scum after all, regardless of his scummy behaviour D1. Please point out any dumbness. Also, please give your top three scum picks, with reasons, and answer Jack's questions.

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

Interesting question. I don't yet know who I would lynch if I were King, but I can answer the second question: little influence; I would either have made up my mind by that time (though not necessarily made it public) or question people for scumminess, opinions on others, and reactions. While suggestions and arguments would be welcome, the choice would be mine alone. It most certainly wouldn't be some "town's choice" bullshit like Dariush tried to say UI's kill would be, because there is no such thing.

Bookthras: Why didn't you claim death-miller in your first post also?

Would you like the short answer or the long one? What makes you think I should have? Would you? Do you think "miller" and "death miller" merit equal strategies? always? I explained my rationale earlier, which you read, so I wonder why you felt the need to ask again.

In any case, it is precisely this misguided notion of "obligation" that I despise about Toaster's "must claim on first-post" position. No, I will claim what I choose whenever I choose. You are free to interpret claims or lacks thereof however you wish and vote your conscience. Recipes, mandates and dogmas are for people who lack free will.

[webadict]

Btw, Day extended until Wednesday. Get crackin' fools.

[Shakerag]

I'm not sure I really believe Shakerag's explanation, but what really bothers me is how I pretty much asked this question:

Also, Bookthras: Why did you decide to claim miller early after what happened in BYOR 9?

in one of my earlier posts.

Shakerag: Can you explain why you think Book is scum?

Oh, didn't see you ask that question.  I was skimming back over the thread and just looking at Bookthras' posts when I asked him that.  I'm not 100% sure Bookthras is scum, it's just more of a gut feeling I'm following out.

I think deathmillerness may be part of wuba's running theme this time, not only because of Leaf's flip but also because I am a death-miller myself, in addition to being a normal (inspection) miller. I have an auto ability that says I will show as mafia on inspect and on death, and that auto wouldn't be displayed on my death flip. However, after checking with wuba, that auto would display if I get role-copped before death, so if anyone has role-inspection powers, targeting me would confirm that.

My gut feeling says this is bullshit, and you're some kind of PGO.  Just a gut feeling, mind you.

What happened in BYOR9?

Also seriously, Toaster's miller thing sucks. It's not entirely without merit, being a miller generally sucks, but it does not alleviate the sucking in any way or form.

So you do or do not stand by this old line of yours from BYOR9?  Because the way I was reading it, it seemed like you didn't care much for claiming miller first post (which you did in this game).

Also nominating Hapah since he's here and Toaster ain't.

Why are you nominating Hapah?

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

-I would vote for someone I thought was scum.
-See above.
-As much as at any other time.  If someone lays out a strong case as to why someone else is scum, why just ignore it? 

Which part? For clarity, in case it was misunderstood: Leafsnail was scummy, I thought he was scum D1 and said so. After his flip, what with it being very town-like, lack of other kills, and my knowledge of there being death-millers, I now no longer think he was scum after all, regardless of his scummy behaviour D1.

What do you think about my theory (posted earlier) of Leafsnail being some kind of specialized third-party hunter on the scumteam?  Also ... given Leafsnail's role name ... it's amusing that you're postulating a theory on (death-)miller-ness being heavily present in the game.  Almost like a conspiracy ...


webadict:  Does being a miller or a death-miller also affect the wincon displayed on inspect or flip?

[Hapah]

PFP

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

If I was king I'd work it just about like a normal lynch, but I'd probably count my own vote twice or something, maybe not count my target's vote. I'd call for FoS's the day before/of my rule, tally 'em up, and make a post to confirm I got the count right (or verify someone else's count, if they did the legwork for me). I haven't honestly given it a lot of thought, though.

It'd be nasty, yes, but why "at least for you"?

Hard to play the numbers when you can't trust them.

And what in the world do you keep submitting to get miller so often?

Often? This is only my second time ever, as far as I recall. BYOR9 I submitted Stephen Colbert, which in a convoluted way I can see how it could be construed as millerlike. This time it's an even more unlikely leap, so it's between wuba and his potent medication how he came up with that, nothing to do with me.

Oh. BYOR9 was my first, so you've been miller 2 of 3 since I've been playing them.

[Toaster]

Sorry about getting quiet- I got lazy.

Hapah:

Leaf's flip is weird, because that's a very townie role.

No argument there. But with a role like that "Town/NonTown results instead of a straight Town/Scum/SK/whatever" I think I could see why he leaned on UI so hard, at least. What kind of Cops/Inspects do BYOR's usually have, or does it vary wildly?

Web's BYORs generally have at least one straight cop in them, so it's hardly unusual to see one.  Occasionally you'll see a little variety (role cop, town/not town instead of town/mafia/third party) but not too often, as I recall.


Deathsword:

Tiluy is still scum because of all that stuff I brought up D1.

Mr Celt: What the fuck was that hammer, lurkscum?

If you got the vote, which one would you lynch?  Why?


MrCelt:

To prove that I've been reading and attempting to apply basic knowledge of basic mafia, I'm going to reread the thread and post some scumhunting, which I admit, I haven't done yet.

Any time you want to do this would be awesome.


Book:

I am a death-miller myself

Do you agree that death millers are one of the most anti-town roles there are?  What would more than one of them in a game say to you?

If you were elected King, what information would you deduce from the people that voted for you?  For your lynch target?


Jack:

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

Answering slightly out of order:  I'd decide just like I would decide who to vote for normally.  Should I be kinged, I'd post my target, explain my case, and give 24 hours or so for comment.  It's unlikely I'd change my mind, but I'd still put it out there.


Shakerag:

I think deathmillerness may be part of wuba's running theme this time, not only because of Leaf's flip but also because I am a death-miller myself, in addition to being a normal (inspection) miller. I have an auto ability that says I will show as mafia on inspect and on death, and that auto wouldn't be displayed on my death flip. However, after checking with wuba, that auto would display if I get role-copped before death, so if anyone has role-inspection powers, targeting me would confirm that.

My gut feeling says this is bullshit, and you're some kind of PGO.  Just a gut feeling, mind you.

Don't forget he claimed regular miller D1.  Why would a PGO claim miller?  If he wanted to drive away cops, that is potentially a townie fake claim, to protect cops from dying on him.


Tylui: Where the hell are you?


Toony, Hapah, and Jack all seem reasonably townie enough so far.  I'd vote for them if a vote for Toaster didn't go anywhere.

[ToonyMan]

Also nominating Hapah since he's here and Toaster ain't.

ToonyMan: That's all it takes for your vote for king?

I'm looking for two things.  1.  They aren't lighting any of my scumtells and 2. they're active.  You can't really get too picky here or else nothing will get done.

I agree with this. As much I am happy with UI's demise and flip, and as scummy as Leaf was, I don't think he was actually scum.

Wow that's dumb Book.

Which part? For clarity, in case it was misunderstood: Leafsnail was scummy, I thought he was scum D1 and said so. After his flip, what with it being very town-like, lack of other kills, and my knowledge of there being death-millers, I now no longer think he was scum after all, regardless of his scummy behaviour D1. Please point out any dumbness. Also, please give your top three scum picks, with reasons, and answer Jack's questions.

You can't say somebody is scummy and then go back and go "wait no he's scummy but not really actually scum you see", it seems blatantly like lying to me.  Your ending here is also redirecting without even addressing my "death-miller" response.

But I'll answer anyway:
1. Bookthras (acting dumb and saying contrary things, I don't need to say as much since I'm on your case)
2. Dariush (I am not very confident how he played off Leafsnail D1 and today he's making an aggressive stance on a Mr. Celt lynch, possibly hoping to grab the nomination and fire away safely)
3. Tiruin or Tylui (for being incomprehensible; although Zombie Urist hasn't been around enough to say much yet)

Everyone: How would each of you handle being King?  How would you decide who to vote for?  How much influence will the general public likely have over your lynch decision?

I would vote the people in my top three list starting with 1.

Also nominating Hapah since he's here and Toaster ain't.

Why are you nominating Hapah?

Repeat question!!  Also Unvote Hapah

Toony, Hapah, and Jack all seem reasonably townie enough so far.  I'd vote for them if a vote for Toaster didn't go anywhere.

Toaster

FYI I'm in Finals Season so I'm really cripplingly my productivity a lot THANKS GUYS

[Dariush]

Toony:

I am not very confident how he played off Leafsnail D1 and today he's making an aggressive stance on a Mr. Celt lynch, possibly hoping to grab the nomination and fire away safely

Wait whut. 'Fire away safely'... unto whom?

Toony, Hapah, and Jack all seem reasonably townie enough so far.  I'd vote for them if a vote for Toaster didn't go anywhere.

Toaster

How did the quoted paragraph influence your vote?

Book, why did you choose to wait until the middle of D2 to claim your deathmillership?