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[Leafsnail]

For the record the way I initially read Dariush's post (which made a lot more sense) was with survivors as a subset of scum and UI already confirmed scum (but with the possibility of joining a subset of confirmed scum, a confirmed survivor).  Still wrong and dumb, but at least it had a logical coherence.

[Bookthras]

Dariush:

I'm voting people I consider to be scum. Do you know for a fact that LS isn't scum?

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

Everyone voting UI: name one good reason not to follow UI's plan: lynch LS, he kills the town's chosen target, if both are town, we lynch him.

Just one? What, did I suddenly turn laconic or something? No, here are a handful:

• We know UI is non-town (a townie who fakeclaims survivor would be too idiotic to live); we think Leaf is scum (he's certainly scummy enough). Lynching UI has zero risk of a mislynch, while lynching Leaf has at least some.
• UI is non-town and has claimed a NK, which will be used by a non-town to aid a non-town's win condition. How is this in town's best interests? Oh, yeah, I forgot...
• "Town's chosen target": there is no such thing. Sure, people may chime in with suggestions, but those who chime may not be town, but scum trying to manipulate an extra townie kill, plus going into night with a declared NK target makes is much too easy for protects/redirects/other shenanigans to happen, plus there's nothing actually binding UI to the popular choice: he can kill whoever he wants, and just say "I was redirected" next day, true or not.
• D1 plans suck. "Oh yeah, let's do this and if he does that it means that other thing" is risky enough in general, what with BYOR unpredictable bullshit and everybody lies and all that; it's infinitely more misguided during D1, when we have absolutely no data about anyone and the maximum number of people to mess around with actions. You want plans? wait until you have actual data.
• Blow me.

Worst case scenario: he manages to kill one town, we lynch confirmed scum UI. Best case scenario: he follows through with the plan, we nab at least one scum D+N1 and confirm that UI is indeed a survivor (because he wouldn't kill his scummate and it's pretty obvious LS and UI can't both be scum).

Hmmm... I find it interesting how you say "his scummate". Does he have only one? How do you know this? Plus of course they can both be scum, just not on the same team (two scumteams has happened before, or one could be SK).

[Dariush]

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Hmmm... I find it interesting how you say "his scummate". Does he have only one? How do you know this? Plus of course they can both be scum, just not on the same team (two scumteams has happened before, or one could be SK).

I wasn't aware that two scumteams were possible in BYORs. By 'his scummate' I meant exactly this: If at least one scum dies during the night, we can safely assume that UI isn't on the scum team. And yes, I forgot about the SK possibility. That doesn't change much: UI will still be forced to adhere to the town's wishes or get his ass lynched.

Isn't it amusing how you complete ignore all scummy shit LS said ever since you changed your vote? Which, oh, just happened to swing balance into UI's favour?
1. And how you parrot his idiotic argument about confirmed non-town versus likely scum I debunked earlier?
2. And how you nicely overlook the fact that not all non-town are scum or even on the same team?
3. And how you nicely forget that this is the exact same thing that happens with ohIdunno votes?
4. And how... actually, this is the closest to sanity you come during this post. Though a claim of being redirected would still get UI's ass lynched, so the argument is still pointless.
5. And how you're ga...rgantuan dick?

[Toaster]

Tylui:

I originally started looking at Leafsnail because his comments about/to Dariush were interesting, but I didn't read that far into it. Then he and UI started going back and forth. They both kept making themselves look worse in general, but I have no reason to act on UI's claim. I'm assuming an investigative-type will find out the truth on that soon enough.

Two issues with this.  One, you're expecting a potential inspector to use a night's action on someone who already has a 0% chance to be town.  Two, you're expecting them to claim to confirm this.  No one in their right mind is going to claim cop to save a survivor, and if the result is Mafia, why not just remain silent and wait for their still-likely lynch?  No, better to save the inspect for someone else.


UI:

Everyone, I'd like to propose that we lynch Leafsnail today, choose a target for my kill tonight, then lynch me tomorrow if neither of them are scum.

I'm sure all the redirectors in the crowd would love to see this.  Or if the chosen target is a scumbuddy of yours, you just kill someone else anyway and claim you were redirected or blocked or something.  No thanks.

(PPE:  Book took the words out of my mouth)


Dariush:

Everyone voting UI: name one good reason not to follow UI's plan: lynch LS, he kills the town's chosen target, if both are town, we lynch him. Worst case scenario: he manages to kill one town, we lynch confirmed scum UI. Best case scenario: he follows through with the plan, we nab at least one scum D+N1 and confirm that UI is indeed a survivor (because he wouldn't kill his scummate and it's pretty obvious LS and UI can't both be scum).

See my response to UI above.  Also, we have zero reason to trust him.  Third, he may have some powerful one-shot and he's doing his best to make sure he lives to N1, given an unexpected pile of votes on him.

Plus, it's within the realm of possibility that they are both on the same team and are pulling an epic double-bus, so don't say it can't be so.  No, I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.


PPE:  Two scum teams is both possible and has already happened- 6.3, I believe.

[Tylui]

Toaster/Tylui:
Tylui said that my question didn't seem like an RVS question. When I pointed out it wasn't intended to be such, he said he didn't say it was either. Basically, he said that something that nobody considers to be X doesn't look like X.

Me:

Also, you imply that Shakerag's RVS questions serve NO purpose, and yet the only question you've asked all game is "Why did you waste a PFP on this?". Doesn't really seem like an RQS question.

I was pointing out the absurdity that you'd criticize RVS questions when you yourself had posted zero "RVS" questions. Notice the lack of the word "RVS" before the bolded "question"

Tylui:

I realize you had a vote in, I meant to question why you aren't more actively trying to find scum.

I'm voting people I consider to be scum. Do you know for a fact that LS isn't scum?

No, I'm quite sure he is. Thus my vote on him. But at that time you were voting for MrCelt without much preliminary work, much like my switch to LS. Yours was well within RVS and I shouldn't have even commented on it.

I'm repeating the answer days later exactly because I wasn't lurking. I was gone with Thanksgiving AND my daughter's first birthday, as I said. So I re-read the whole thread since my last post and wrote my post concurrently.

Yes, of course, asspull excuses instead of answering my questions. I don't give the most miniscule of fucks about where you were or what you were doing. You weren't here. I repeat: why did you repeat Mr. Celt's answer? And how does that relate to not-lurking?

Also nice bandwagon.

If I repeated his answer it was by mistake. I was writing my reply WHILE I read through the thread. I would type something and move on; reading all the while. I probably joined in a few dead topics considering it was a couple of days inbetween my first post and the next time I had available.

Thank you, sir.

DS:

If Leafsnail is so scummy, why don't you keep asking him questions instead of just throwing a vote and shifting your attention to others?

...The fuck? Did you really just accuse him of not blindly tunnelling?

He was blindly tunneling you. Then he drops that, votes Leafsnail and doesn't even throw a single crap question at him to pretend he is trying.

Because I don't need to ask crap questions. He's doing a lovely job of hanging himself; exposing his scummy self more and more without my interaction!

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Just to be clear, that's not how I thought that conversation went down. For one, it was MrCelt, not LS.

[Tylui]

Leafsnail:

Let's say our situations were reversed. Would you choose UI over me? Would you choose UI over any other player? Which player would you kill instead of UI, were he in your shoes instead of you?

[Tiruin]

Unvote

PFP

Sorry, RL got me for the past day. Will post in the afternoon, approx. ~7 hours from now

[Leafsnail]

Let's say our situations were reversed. Would you choose UI over me?

No.  I would vote you in order to help save my buddy or potential future ally UI.

Would you choose UI over any other player?

No, again I'd want to save my buddy/ potential future ally.

Which player would you kill instead of UI, were he in your shoes instead of you?

Huh?  Who am I in this hypothetical?  UI?  If I were UI I'd vote whichever other player had the most votes to try and save myself.  Which would be me, who is now UI?  Fuck I have no idea what you're getting at with these questions.

[Teneb]

Oh boy, look at Tylui slipping all over the place.

Tylui:

I realize you had a vote in, I meant to question why you aren't more actively trying to find scum.

I'm voting people I consider to be scum. Do you know for a fact that LS isn't scum?

No, I'm quite sure he is. Thus my vote on him. But at that time you were voting for MrCelt without much preliminary work, much like my switch to LS. Yours was well within RVS and I shouldn't have even commented on it.

How can you be so sure if you never asked a question (aside from the ONE question you asked RIGHT NOW) to make sure you are not misunderstanding something? Oh, wait, I know: you are scum, thus you know who the scum are. And, thus, you don't need to ask any questions at all to know who to vote.

I'm repeating the answer days later exactly because I wasn't lurking. I was gone with Thanksgiving AND my daughter's first birthday, as I said. So I re-read the whole thread since my last post and wrote my post concurrently.

Yes, of course, asspull excuses instead of answering my questions. I don't give the most miniscule of fucks about where you were or what you were doing. You weren't here. I repeat: why did you repeat Mr. Celt's answer? And how does that relate to not-lurking?

Also nice bandwagon.

If I repeated his answer it was by mistake. I was writing my reply WHILE I read through the thread. I would type something and move on; reading all the while. I probably joined in a few dead topics considering it was a couple of days inbetween my first post and the next time I had available.

Thank you, sir.

Had you been reading the thread and what you typed, you'd see it had been repeated. Nice try, though.

DS:

If Leafsnail is so scummy, why don't you keep asking him questions instead of just throwing a vote and shifting your attention to others?

...The fuck? Did you really just accuse him of not blindly tunnelling?

He was blindly tunneling you. Then he drops that, votes Leafsnail and doesn't even throw a single crap question at him to pretend he is trying.

Because I don't need to ask crap questions. He's doing a lovely job of hanging himself; exposing his scummy self more and more without my interaction!

So you don't need to do anything, because you are completely sure he is scum without asking him anything at all. Thus, you can just throw a vote on him without asking anything and that will not be scummy at all. Totally not scummy. Yeah.

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Just to be clear, that's not how I thought that conversation went down. For one, it was MrCelt, not LS.

I would like to point out more of your bullshit here, but I have no idea what you talking about in this quote.

Leafsnail:

Let's say our situations were reversed. Would you choose UI over me? Would you choose UI over any other player? Which player would you kill instead of UI, were he in your shoes instead of you?

Oh look, a crappy question he asked because I called him on that.

[Tylui]

[various questions]

[various answers]

So... You would vote for yourself in this situation. You agree that you look scummy, or...?

That last question was worded funny, sorry for that. But it doesn't matter anyway, since that question is null from your previous answers, which can be summed up as: "No matter who it is in this situation, you would NOT vote to lynch UI".

@Deathsword:
Shakerag voted Leafsnail without asking him any questions. Granted, he did show that he suspected him before doing so.
Dariush didn't have any back-and-forth with Leafsnail before voting either.

Leafsnail is looking very scummy on his own.

Had you been reading the thread and what you typed, you'd see it had been repeated. Nice try, though.

Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what my posting process is? No you don't. Also, I had about 100 posts to sift through, read, and reply to if needed. I missed a post; my bad.

So you don't need to do anything, because you are completely sure he is scum without asking him anything at all. Thus, you can just throw a vote on him without asking anything and that will not be scummy at all. Totally not scummy. Yeah.

I guess it does look pretty scummy. But as I've said before I didn't mean to startle anyone and I've learned my lesson. And, yes I asked a question because I was called out on it. You wanted to see me ask questions, so I did.

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Just to be clear, that's not how I thought that conversation went down. For one, it was MrCelt, not LS.

I would like to point out more of your bullshit here, but I have no idea what you talking about in this quote.

Oh my Lord.

MrCelt said something ambiguously contradictory.
DARIUSH:

...Did you really just directly contradict your earlier statement that you asked them for the directly opposite reason (that they are inactive)? Why are you summoning up excuses?

Me, UNAWARE THAT MrCelt HAD ALREADY ANSWERED:

He didn't contradict himself, but I think you know that since you didn't include his earlier quote. You sure are trying to get the attention off of you any way possible but actually voting!

DARIUSH:

Why are you repeating the answer he gave several days ago while you were lurking your ass off and claiming that I'm not voting despite the fact that I voted several days ago while... while you were lurking your ass off?

Me:

Also, I slipped when I wrote "voting". I realize you had a vote in, I meant to question why you aren't more actively trying to find scum.

DARIUSH, thinking that we were talking about LS, when really we should have been talking about MrCelt still:

I'm voting people I consider to be scum. Do you know for a fact that LS isn't scum?

BOOKTHRAS, chiming in:

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

DARIUSH, note the continued sarcasm:

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Me, explaining that Dariush was confused:

Just to be clear, that's not how I thought that conversation went down. For one, it was MrCelt, not LS.

Now, Deathsword, although you have me in your sights, what do you think about the Leafsnail vs UI sitch. Who would you vote for, and why?

[Leafsnail]

So... You would vote for yourself in this situation. You agree that you look scummy, or...?

I thought the "Buddy or potential future ally" part made it obvious but what I'm actually doing is calling you a mafia member

@Deathsword:
Shakerag voted Leafsnail without asking him any questions. Granted, he did show that he suspected him before doing so.
Dariush didn't have any back-and-forth with Leafsnail before voting either.

"I may have voted with crappy reasons, but hey look, other people on the bandwagon I'm on did too!  That makes it ok right?"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

no

[Tylui]

@Deathsword:
Shakerag voted Leafsnail without asking him any questions. Granted, he did show that he suspected him before doing so.
Dariush didn't have any back-and-forth with Leafsnail before voting either.

"I may have voted with crappy reasons, but hey look, other people on the bandwagon I'm on did too!  That makes it ok right?"

Crappy reasons, {quote}without asking questions{/quote}

[Leafsnail]

Oh ok so it's just regular deflection then.  Good to know.

[Teneb]

@Deathsword:
Shakerag voted Leafsnail without asking him any questions. Granted, he did show that he suspected him before doing so.
Dariush didn't have any back-and-forth with Leafsnail before voting either.

Leafsnail is looking very scummy on his own.

Leafsnail already said it, but I will repeat it anyway: you just deflected. You aren't building a case on Leafsnail, you are trying to point out scummy behaviour of others to hide your own.

So you don't need to do anything, because you are completely sure he is scum without asking him anything at all. Thus, you can just throw a vote on him without asking anything and that will not be scummy at all. Totally not scummy. Yeah.

I guess it does look pretty scummy. But as I've said before I didn't mean to startle anyone and I've learned my lesson. And, yes I asked a question because I was called out on it. You wanted to see me ask questions, so I did.
[/quote]
Correct, I wanted you to ask questions. Plural. You asked one. And a crappy one at that.

Spoiler: Spoiled for quote pyramid (click to show/hide)

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Just to be clear, that's not how I thought that conversation went down. For one, it was MrCelt, not LS.

I would like to point out more of your bullshit here, but I have no idea what you talking about in this quote.

Oh my Lord.

MrCelt said something ambiguously contradictory.
DARIUSH:

...Did you really just directly contradict your earlier statement that you asked them for the directly opposite reason (that they are inactive)? Why are you summoning up excuses?

Me, UNAWARE THAT MrCelt HAD ALREADY ANSWERED:

He didn't contradict himself, but I think you know that since you didn't include his earlier quote. You sure are trying to get the attention off of you any way possible but actually voting!

DARIUSH:

Why are you repeating the answer he gave several days ago while you were lurking your ass off and claiming that I'm not voting despite the fact that I voted several days ago while... while you were lurking your ass off?

Me:

Also, I slipped when I wrote "voting". I realize you had a vote in, I meant to question why you aren't more actively trying to find scum.

DARIUSH, thinking that we were talking about LS, when really we should have been talking about MrCelt still:

I'm voting people I consider to be scum. Do you know for a fact that LS isn't scum?

BOOKTHRAS, chiming in:

What an idiotic question. Do you know for a fact someone who isn't scum? Please say yes, so we can lynch your ass. Townies do not know for a fact others' alignments, dumbass; no matter how scummy their play, there is always a chance they derped or one is misreading them, there's always a risk and one votes their best guess.

DARIUSH, note the continued sarcasm:

Fun fact: that's exactly what I implied when I asked that question. Tylui was just way too sure that by voting LS I didn't vote scum, ergo LS is town.

Me, explaining that Dariush was confused:

Just to be clear, that's not how I thought that conversation went down. For one, it was MrCelt, not LS.

Oh, that is much more helpful. Thank you. Now I know that you tunneled Dar, got caught in a little argument with him, and now you trying to help clarify his confusion. How nice of you. Do you usually get friendly with people pressuring you?

Now, Deathsword, although you have me in your sights, what do you think about the Leafsnail vs UI sitch. Who would you vote for, and why?

Here, have a link (Check post #193 if it doesn't lead you there automatically for any reason)
To thy question: If I were foreced to choose between either of them, it would probably be UI since he is confirmed non-town, while Leafsnail's alignment is still unknown. But, fortunately, I do not have to choose just between those two, so I can vote you instead. You scum.

[Toaster]

Deathsword:  This post is fairly hard to read with the stripped attributions in quotes.  Please leave them in the future.


Tylui:

Now, Deathsword, although you have me in your sights, what do you think about the Leafsnail vs UI sitch. Who would you vote for, and why?

This is scummy.  You're setting them against each other, in a MUST LYNCH ONE OR OTHER situation.  You leave no option for "lynch neither."  Convenient for you if, say, you're scum and know neither of them is your scumbuddy.