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[Leafsnail]

I humoured you a little but I'm not going to allow you to dodge the point like this any more.  It doesn't matter what alignment Dariush is.  If distancing or bussing is happening then you are scum and my vote on you is correct.  Bussing and distancing at this point would make no sense incidentally and you don't seem to disagree that Dariush looks town, but I guess you feel like running this into the ground anyway.

The point is that, when asked about why you were voting someone, you said you'd tunnel them until you "either had a read on him or found something suspicious".  Dariush is a player who almost invariably turns up something suspicious when you tunnel him, so this is a mislynching strategy.  Admitting to using a mislynching strategy is scummy (even if you're for no reason at all using mislynching strategies on your own partner because you've suffered some kind of stroke).  Ok?  Get it?  Do I need to use more words?  Now respond to the actual important part.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The point is that, when asked about why you were voting someone, you said you'd tunnel them until you "either had a read on him or found something suspicious".  Dariush is a player who almost invariably turns up something suspicious when you tunnel him, so this is a mislynching strategy.

I see the problem. My wording suggests the something suspicious would be from Dariush. I guess that's my fault for not making it clearer, but that is not the case - and if you had thought about it for a moment, you'd have probably been able to put two and two together and get an answer less than 22, as I was (again) doing this at the very start of RVS, meaning that by definition nothing suspicious had happened.

Additionally, I would like to point out that [meta warning] from my experience, the main thing that gets Dariush angry is people either misinterpreting his posts or acting blatantly scummy at him. Throwing accusations at him in RVS based on nothing would be rather unlikely to provoke that sort of response, as evidenced by the fact that it did not.

Now. Answer my questions. Especially the one regarding why you waited to vote me.

Deathsword: Are you going to make any useful contributions? Who do you suspect?

Toaster: Why are you voting MrCelt again?

[Leafsnail]

Oh right your irrelevant questions

1. "Why now??" I thought that you'd give me an actual answer without needing a vote.  When you failed to provide one and instead switched to "Well what if Dariush is scum??" I decided a vote was needed.  It clearly was since it took that and another slap on the face to get you to stop babbling about stupid irrelevancies and answer.
2. "Why Dariush town??" I've explained this one like 3 times and you haven't actually disagreed with me on the things that make Dariush look town.  In any case I once again say that it doesn't matter.  Even if you're pulling a weird gambit where you're using mislynching tactics on a partner (very very unlikely because it's stupid) that still makes you scum.

I see the problem. My wording suggests the something suspicious would be from Dariush. I guess that's my fault for not making it clearer, but that is not the case - and if you had thought about it for a moment, you'd have probably been able to put two and two together and get an answer less than 22, as I was (again) doing this at the very start of RVS, meaning that by definition nothing suspicious had happened.

Why not issue this clarification earlier?  The answer is that you only just thought it up now.  I'm aware that "nothing suspicious had happened" at the start of RVS - what you were saying is that you'd wait for something suspicious from Dariush to justify your vote.

Additionally, I would like to point out that [meta warning] from my experience, the main thing that gets Dariush angry is people either misinterpreting his posts or acting blatantly scummy at him. Throwing accusations at him in RVS based on nothing would be rather unlikely to provoke that sort of response, as evidenced by the fact that it did not.

"Tunneling" him does though.  Which is what you said you were intending to do

[Hapah]

Hapah: If you had a one-shot randomization, when would you choose to use it?

I guess after MYLO/LYLO, if we botched it. Last-ditch effort to make scum shoot themselves.

What am I missing? I can't seem to follow the scrap between UI and Leaf (I'll admit it was a fast read)

[Jack A T]

Jack:

2. Ah, so by reactions, you definitely mean something as strong as voting.  What about reactions of less strength than votes?  Stuff like comments and such?

It depends. All comments are different. Something like 'Dariush! !ti tsol uoY !emag ehT' wouldn't qualify, while pretty much anything that the person then will be able to tack onto the end of their case against me would. Yes, now that I think about it, there aren't many things short of vote that I would qualify as a reaction. I guess I didn't think this through.

Dariush: And with that, all is clarified.  Unvote.

Jack:

Tiruin:
*How that is an RVS question: Reaction test-type thing.

What reactions were you looking for?

Urist Imiknorris: I was not looking for any specific reaction so much as interested in getting some idea of his personality.  The results I got, particularly the calmness and the question back, were informative.

I was going to keep tunneling on him until I either had a read on him or found something suspicious, but then I realized it was a stupid idea and let it go.

When did you realize that this was a stupid idea?  What did you initially think you would even get out of it?  Beyond that, why did you ever think that continuous tunnelling would be helpful at all?
Finally, Urist Imiknorris, I find the fact that you're building a good chunk of your defense against Leafsnail around Dariush possibly being scum (something that, in this case, is irrelevant to whether you are scum or not) is a tad bit off-putting, too.

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.  Secondly your explanation for your Dariush vote is a strategy for mislynching people (which works especially well on Dariush because Dariush acts scummy as hell once you get him angry), not a strategy for identifying scum.  This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

This is just making up bullshit to cover up a possible slip.  Leafsnail.  I don't see why you'd have to respond that much if you're town.

ToonyMan: So...um...why wouldn't town give a response like Leafsnail gave?

I see the problem. My wording suggests the something suspicious would be from Dariush. I guess that's my fault for not making it clearer, but that is not the case - and if you had thought about it for a moment, you'd have probably been able to put two and two together and get an answer less than 22, as I was (again) doing this at the very start of RVS, meaning that by definition nothing suspicious had happened.

Why not issue this clarification earlier?  The answer is that you only just thought it up now.  I'm aware that "nothing suspicious had happened" at the start of RVS - what you were saying is that you'd wait for something suspicious from Dariush to justify your vote.

Leafsnail: Yes, clearly Urist Imiknorris didn't say this earlier.  Clearly.

Wait a second...

Hey, that's my favourite mislynching strategy too!  What a coincidence.

Even the part where you stop tunneling if you see something suspicious from someone else?

...he did.  Seriously, Leafsnail? 

<snip>

Tiruin: Sorry, but I cannot understand most of this post.

MrCelt: Again, please give your opinion on pretty much anything going on in this game.  RVS is over.  It's been over for quite some time now.

[Dariush]

Mr. Celt is posting in BM, but completely ignores this game. Welp, we found our first scum.

The point is that, when asked about why you were voting someone, you said you'd tunnel them until you "either had a read on him or found something suspicious".  Dariush is a player who almost invariably turns up something suspicious when you tunnel him, so this is a mislynching strategy.  Admitting to using a mislynching strategy is scummy (even if you're for no reason at all using mislynching strategies on your own partner because you've suffered some kind of stroke).  Ok?  Get it?  Do I need to use more words?  Now respond to the actual important part.

So... UI is scum because he used a strategy that you consider mislynching in context of my supposed meta (that you don't bother to even link), even though nobody else (including me) considers it to be so?

[MrCelt]

PFP:

Mr. Celt is posting in BM, but completely ignores this game. Welp, we found our first scum.

I've been asked to read over the past BYORs and BMs to get a hold of the RVS.

MrCelt: Again, please give your opinion on pretty much anything going on in this game.  RVS is over.  It's been over for quite some time now.

Let me reread and  I'll get back to you, been mostly paying attention to the attention on me and re-reading old BMs/BYORs.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Jack:

When did you realize that this was a stupid idea?  What did you initially think you would even get out of it?  Beyond that, why did you ever think that continuous tunnelling would be helpful at all?

I realized it was dumb Wednesday afternoon, when I realized that tunneling someone to generate discussion wouldn't generate much discussion.

Finally, Urist Imiknorris, I find the fact that you're building a good chunk of your defense against Leafsnail around Dariush possibly being scum (something that, in this case, is irrelevant to whether you are scum or not) is a tad bit off-putting, too.

I'm questioning Leafsnail's basis for his statement that lynching Dariush would necessarily be a mislynch.

Leafsnail:

1. "Why now??" I thought that you'd give me an actual answer without needing a vote.  When you failed to provide one and instead switched to "Well what if Dariush is scum??" I decided a vote was needed.  It clearly was since it took that and another slap on the face to get you to stop babbling about stupid irrelevancies and answer.

So you weren't voting me because you thought I was scum, but rather because you wanted me to answer your question. Seriously, Leafsnail? Voting me was a tactical decision? You decided to keep your random vote than actually vote your main suspect, because you thought it wouldn't be necessary? Hang.

[Dariush]

So you weren't voting me because you thought I was scum, but rather because you wanted me to answer your question. Seriously, Leafsnail? Voting me was a tactical decision? You decided to keep your random vote than actually vote your main suspect, because you thought it wouldn't be necessary? Hang.

Wait what. Since when did pressure votes become considered scummy? That looks more like an (extremely) flimsy justification of a bandwagon vote than anything else.

[Urist Imiknorris]

That's not my issue. My issue is how long it took him to get around to voting me.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail: Yes, clearly Urist Imiknorris didn't say this earlier.  Clearly.

Wait a second...

Ah fair enough, I was mistaken on that count.  Everything else against UI still stands.

So... UI is scum because he used a strategy that you consider mislynching in context of my supposed meta (that you don't bother to even link), even though nobody else (including me) considers it to be so?

I did it to you in Prince's Guard so I assumed you'd know what I meant.

That's not my issue. My issue is how long it took him to get around to voting me.

hahahaha

[ToonyMan]

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.  Secondly your explanation for your Dariush vote is a strategy for mislynching people (which works especially well on Dariush because Dariush acts scummy as hell once you get him angry), not a strategy for identifying scum.  This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

This is just making up bullshit to cover up a possible slip.  Leafsnail.  I don't see why you'd have to respond that much if you're town.

ToonyMan: So...um...why wouldn't town give a response like Leafsnail gave?

You could just say it's wrong and deny it.  Or say it doesn't matter for your case and you're deflecting, etc.

PPE:
I was about to respond to this post with laughter:

That's not my issue. My issue is how long it took him to get around to voting me.

But it looks like I was beaten.

[Toaster]

Urist I:

Toaster: Why are you voting MrCelt again?

I voted him for pressure because he gave a terrible excuse for lurking.  His responses screamed "clueless newbie," so I'm waiting for him to come back with some real content before I decide if he's clueless town or clueless scum.  The pressure's not misapplied at this point, at least.


Dariush:

So you weren't voting me because you thought I was scum, but rather because you wanted me to answer your question. Seriously, Leafsnail? Voting me was a tactical decision? You decided to keep your random vote than actually vote your main suspect, because you thought it wouldn't be necessary? Hang.

Wait what. Since when did pressure votes become considered scummy? That looks more like an (extremely) flimsy justification of a bandwagon vote than anything else.

Are you really calling a second vote here a bandwagon?  Don't you mean OMGUS?


Leafsnail:

I humoured you a little but I'm not going to allow you to dodge the point like this any more.  It doesn't matter what alignment Dariush is.  If distancing or bussing is happening then you are scum and my vote on you is correct.  Bussing and distancing at this point would make no sense incidentally and you don't seem to disagree that Dariush looks town, but I guess you feel like running this into the ground anyway.

The point is that, when asked about why you were voting someone, you said you'd tunnel them until you "either had a read on him or found something suspicious".  Dariush is a player who almost invariably turns up something suspicious when you tunnel him, so this is a mislynching strategy.  Admitting to using a mislynching strategy is scummy (even if you're for no reason at all using mislynching strategies on your own partner because you've suffered some kind of stroke).  Ok?  Get it?  Do I need to use more words?  Now respond to the actual important part.

This all seems overblown.  How is trying to get a reaction out of someone a bad way to break RVS?  What's your preferred way of doing it?


Book:

Leafsnail:

This is a role heavy game, and the game where I asked the question. Is your answer then "I'd save them"? Would you tie the vote for a nolynch?

What else could "I'd save them" possibly be interpreted as?  If you let someone die or assist in killing them then you haven't saved them.

Hmmm... why did you then make the effort to say how you'd act on a game that is not this one? Plus I frankly don't think you're being sincere; I doubt you'd actually do as you say and tie the vote.

Guessing doesn't count?

Gee that sure is a useful question!  One where you have to actually avoid thinking about it and toss a coin in order for it to not be rolefishing.

May not be useful, but it's still a valid question and definitely not rolefishing. Plus "guessing" and "avoid thinking and toss a coin" are not the same thing. Seeing how someone formulates a guess makes for a valid RVS question.

So... your case on Leaf is that you don't like his RVS answers?  I'm not sure I get your other points.

[Teneb]

UI:

Deathsword: Are you going to make any useful contributions? Who do you suspect?

My takes on what has happened thus far: I think there is a bandwagon going on, but I am unsure if the prime target is you or Leafsnail. Right now people are voting either you or Leaf, which I think started when you tunnelled Dariush (which you then realized was a bad idea) and Leafsnail said it's never too early to myslynch Dariush (as a joke, I think). I don't think either of these to be excessively scummy, so I don't quite understand why things have reached this situation this quick.

Mr Celt feels to me like a newbie that is somewhat intimidated by the other more experienced players (what makes me think that is personal experience), but that doesn't mean he can't be scum.

Shakerag has yet to post.

[Toaster]

Deathsword:  Explaining the situation without taking a stand on any of the issues isn't helpful at all- it's actually scummy since it looks like you're contributing, but you're not.

Take a stand- is anything of what you mentioned scummy?  What is the scummiest thing you've seen so far?