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[Urist Imiknorris]

And your non-joking answer is?

Also, why are you assuming Dariush is town?

[MrCelt]

PFP:

MrCelt: Why are you ignoring Toaster?

And to all of the general questions saying I suck, this is my first RVS, and still have no clue how to play.

[Tiruin]

PFP

So...you really aren't doing anything because you've ascertained to yourself that you've no clue how to play when you're in a BM too?

And you haven't tried to ask questions beforehand, but then you say they suck.


...

MrCelt.

[Toaster]

MrCelt:

PFP:

MrCelt: Why are you ignoring Toaster?

And to all of the general questions saying I suck, this is my first RVS, and still have no clue how to play.

Then I suggest you learn.

Quickly.

[My inner IC is telling me to tell you to read over some old games, especially some of the recent Beginner Mafia games.]


Tiruin:

PFP

So...you really aren't doing anything because you've ascertained to yourself that you've no clue how to play when you're in a BM too?

And you haven't tried to ask questions beforehand, but then you say they suck.


...

MrCelt.

Did you mean to vote him here?  Because the random bolding of his name doesn't make much sense.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin:

PFP

So...you really aren't doing anything because you've ascertained to yourself that you've no clue how to play when you're in a BM too?

And you haven't tried to ask questions beforehand, but then you say they suck.


...

MrCelt.

Did you mean to vote him here?  Because the random bolding of his name doesn't make much sense.

No I didn't mean to vote him there. I just left that in to denote who I'm talking to there.

PFP

[Bookthras]

Leafsnail:

This is a role heavy game, and the game where I asked the question. Is your answer then "I'd save them"? Would you tie the vote for a nolynch?

What else could "I'd save them" possibly be interpreted as?  If you let someone die or assist in killing them then you haven't saved them.

Hmmm... why did you then make the effort to say how you'd act on a game that is not this one? Plus I frankly don't think you're being sincere; I doubt you'd actually do as you say and tie the vote.

Guessing doesn't count?

Gee that sure is a useful question!  One where you have to actually avoid thinking about it and toss a coin in order for it to not be rolefishing.

May not be useful, but it's still a valid question and definitely not rolefishing. Plus "guessing" and "avoid thinking and toss a coin" are not the same thing. Seeing how someone formulates a guess makes for a valid RVS question.

No, it isn't. What makes you think this is rolefishing?

It's a question that can only be answered by referring to your own role

Bullshit. I'll prove it: yes, I think there is a theme on this game, because wuba has said he does that and he has indeed done that in several recent games, so it's likely he did it here too. I didn't have to look at my own role to make that determination at all, and even if I had tried, it wouldn't have helped: I can't know whether anything in my role has a theme with others, because I don't know others' roles, duh. I may have a "cluck like a chicken and lay an egg" power, or even three, but I wouldn't know whether there's a chicken or farm animals theme going on unless I knew others had similar powers, yes?

So no, still not rolefishing, and your doubling down on that stance is scummy.

It's never too early to set up a mislynch on Dariush.

What makes you think it'd be a mislynch?

[Leafsnail]

@Tiruin can you take some kind of stance on something please?  Thanks in advance.

Unvote, Urist Imiknorris.

And your non-joking answer is?

Also, why are you assuming Dariush is town?

Being a joke doesn't stop it from being true.

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.  Secondly your explanation for your Dariush vote is a strategy for mislynching people (which works especially well on Dariush because Dariush acts scummy as hell once you get him angry), not a strategy for identifying scum.  This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

Other than that you're doing this non-committal thing too.

Hmmm... why did you then make the effort to say how you'd act on a game that is not this one? Plus I frankly don't think you're being sincere; I doubt you'd actually do as you say and tie the vote.

You didn't specify "this game", so I decided to answer fully by saying the circumstances under which I would and wouldn't tie the vote.  I'm not sure what the point of asking a question is if you're going to disbelieve my answer without explanation.  In a role heavy game numbers trump acting like a townie, and if my partner is only one vote ahead there can't be any real consensus against them anyway.

Bullshit. I'll prove it: yes, I think there is a theme on this game, because wuba has said he does that and he has indeed done that in several recent games, so it's likely he did it here too. I didn't have to look at my own role to make that determination at all, and even if I had tried, it wouldn't have helped: I can't know whether anything in my role has a theme with others, because I don't know others' roles, duh. I may have a "cluck like a chicken and lay an egg" power, or even three, but I wouldn't know whether there's a chicken or farm animals theme going on unless I knew others had similar powers, yes?

So no, still not rolefishing, and your doubling down on that stance is scummy.

So yeah that is a coinflip answer with a sentence of handwaving that tells me nothing about your alignment or the game.

Actions could inform you if there's a theme if 1) they are fairly rare actions and are modified weirdly implying that there are other people with differently modified or unmodified versions of the action or 2) you have a certain class of action and there's something to imply other people have it too (eg "You can revive once on death.  You can kill another player - if you do so, that player can never be revived" or "You can follow another player in the night.  If another player tries to follow you they will always see you visit their house" and so on).  As an example I would take Hapah from last game - the fact he had a revival ability and a "kill everybody else" action implied there may have been ways for other people to survive being killed, thus suggesting a revival theme.

Now it's certainly possible this wasn't Deathsword's intent, but I wanted to see how he'd respond to such an allegation.  His response isn't going to be very useful now that I've had to explain all that though.

What makes you think it'd be a mislynch?

See my answer to UI above.

[Dariush]

It's never too early to set up a mislynch on Dariush.

I love you too, fuckhole.

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.

Uh... Thanks, I guess? Mind pointing out differences between my 'townie' play and my 'scummy' play, for research purposes, obviously?

This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

Wait what. Have you heard about such a thing as bussing? Have you examined the possibility of UI being town and not knowing my alignment? Why do you think a joke RVS opening is an attempt to mislynch?

[Tiruin]

We really need a votecount.

My unofficial eyes see it as [[url\http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119041.msg3813341#msg3813341]Last update[/url]]:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Toaster -
Urist Imiknorris - , Shakerag, ToonyMan, Leafsnail
Tiruin - ,
Hapah -
Dariush - Tylui, Jack A T,
Tylui - ,
Leafsnail - Bookthras
Bookthras -
Deathsword - ,
Shakerag - , Deathsword,
MrCelt - Tiruin, Toaster, Dariush
Jack A T -
ToonyMan -
No Lynch -

Not Voting - , Hapah, MrCelt, Urist Imiknorris

@Tiruin can you take some kind of stance on something please?  Thanks in advance.

On MrCelt?

Anyway:
Leafsnail
Since when did you assume UI's vote seemed to turn permanent - judging by your wording [orange]:

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.  Secondly your explanation for your Dariush vote is a strategy for mislynching people (which works especially well on Dariush because Dariush acts scummy as hell once you get him angry), not a strategy for identifying scum.  This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

Next. Why on the first thing? Afterwards, what makes you so sure about Dariush being town, and why are you defending him?

Also, WIFOM? Mafia members don't usually try to mislynch? Sure. Proof?

And, judging by your vote. You tied it up while MrCelt was on the lynching block (assuming Book doesn't have a double vote thingy because I counted two <red>Leafsnail</red>s from him.)



Hapah: Hope you're enjoying the holidays there! Post soon, please.

PPE: Dariush

Hey Leafsnail, look! DARIUSH EMITTING RAEG! That scummy enough for you?

[Leafsnail]

@Dariush:

The difference is taking robust accusations and questions that seem related to people's alignments.  And the anger seems directed at hunting, which is a change from the "I'm not angry until someone accuses me" or the "GRR I'M ANGRY FOR NO REASON AND AT NOTHING IN PARTICULAR" I associate with scum-Dariush.

There is bussing, but using mislynching strategies against your own buddies defeats the purpose of it.  I have examined the possibility of UI being town and it doesn't square with the scumhunting technique he laid out.  Also if UI is trying to bus then he is a mafia member who needs to die anyway, so I have no problem voting him.

@Tiruin:
A stance on anything at all would be good.  Preferably on somebody's alignment.  At the moment you're saying a lot of nothing.

I'm not sure what your individual questions to me actually mean.  I didn't assume UI's vote turned permanent.  I've explained why Dariush looks town to me, and earlier in the post I explain that using a mislynching technique on your own buddy would be stupid (and if he decided to do it for MAD WIFOM that'd make him scum so he can go die anyway).

Tying the vote isn't very significant when there are about 2 days until the deadline.  I will at the very least get one more post tomorrow before the deadline, so it's not like the vote could cause a no lynch.

[Teneb]

Finally got some time to read the thread, university is tiring business.

Leafsnail: My question was not asked to rolefish Shakerag's role. As Book said, guessing doesn't mean simply flipping a coin. It was RVS, and the point of the question was to generate speculation.


Mr Celt: From what I've gathered, you keep justifying your mistakes by saying you are a newbie and don't know how to play. Why not try to play instead of repeating that over and over?

[ToonyMan]

@Urist Imik:

I was going to keep tunneling on him until I either had a read on him or found something suspicious, but then I realized it was a stupid idea and let it go.

Okay so it's the "this is stupid" excuse.


@Leafsnail general:

Leafsnail Leafsnail Leafsnail Leafsnail

Leafsnail Leafsnail Leafsnail Leafsnail

That's some singular focus on Leafsnail, however there is one point I do like:

It's never too early to set up a mislynch on Dariush.

What makes you think it'd be a mislynch?

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.  Secondly your explanation for your Dariush vote is a strategy for mislynching people (which works especially well on Dariush because Dariush acts scummy as hell once you get him angry), not a strategy for identifying scum.  This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

This is just making up bullshit to cover up a possible slip.  Leafsnail.  I don't see why you'd have to respond that much if you're town.


@Tiruin:
I don't get what you're saying either Tiruin.  Also:

And, judging by your vote. You tied it up while MrCelt was on the lynching block (assuming Book doesn't have a double vote thingy because I counted two <red>Leafsnail</red>s from him.)

I think I heard in the past that Bookthras likes to repeatedly vote people in red as he posts.  I wouldn't be sure about the double vote thing.

[Leafsnail]

That was the reasoning I was using.  I spelt it out because Book doesn't get short posts.

Leafsnail: My question was not asked to rolefish Shakerag's role. As Book said, guessing doesn't mean simply flipping a coin. It was RVS, and the point of the question was to generate speculation.

Thanks, the fact that someone else already answered for you kindof invalidates this though.

[Hapah]

I have returned!

I'll see if I can get a reread and a post in tonight.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I get home and 504 504 504 504

@Tiruin can you take some kind of stance on something please?  Thanks in advance.

Unvote, Urist Imiknorris.

And your non-joking answer is?

Also, why are you assuming Dariush is town?

Being a joke doesn't stop it from being true.

As for your second question, firstly this is the most townie I've ever seen Dariush play.  Secondly your explanation for your Dariush vote is a strategy for mislynching people (which works especially well on Dariush because Dariush acts scummy as hell once you get him angry), not a strategy for identifying scum.  This implies Dariush is town because mafia members don't usually try to mislynch their buddies.

Ah, so you're starting with the assumption that I'm scum and assuming I'd not try to distance myself from a buddy during RVS.

a) The first of those assumptions would generally involve you voting me, which it appears it took you a while to do. Why did you wait to vote me?
b) The second one is just dumb. Bussing and distancing are things that can happen, you know. Assuming they're not is absurdly naive, and indeed willfully ignorant considering what I was planning in Bring Your Own Cards.

So again, why are you assuming Dariush is town?

(and if he decided to do it for MAD WIFOM that'd make him scum so he can go die anyway).

Which is entirely irrelevant. You'd think that if you had actually considered that possibility you'd have not made your assumption in the first place.