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[Maklak]

> Cybernetics.
Either wearable items (with dfhack) or workshop syndromes.

> Performance propagation via sprite-bot/pip-buck.
Not really my thing, but OK.

> Rifle turrets.
Heck yes. The turrets we have are a joke. The basic ones do pretty much nothing, the flamers are prone to friendly fire and burning things and miniguns are better used for battle saddles.

> Rough glass recycling.
Sure, we might as well use it for something.

> the number of logs a tree produces.
I think you can reduce trunk thickness to 1 and height to 3, giving 3 logs per tree. Other than that you might need to resort to reducing frequencies a lot. Finally, as a last resort, you might add another layer of indirection. Such as:
1) Low quality salvage -> has a chance to produce "battered chest" -> an automatic reaction to identify it produces the kind of chest we get from low quality salvage or nothing at all (the chest was damaged). But that could result in getting several chests from one.
2) Rare items don't have 1-5% drop chance. Instead you find a "locked box" that can have these items.

[Hetairos]

Also, "[PREFSTRING:enticing hindquarters]", is this really a mainstay in every pony mod?

I believe it's an easter egg dating all the way back to Nidokoenig's (?) first pony mod. Most, if not all of the later ones are based on it.

[UnicodingUnicorn]

> If you look at the DF wiki you can get some information about the personality traits there and what the values mean: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Personality_trait
Thanks, been referring to that, it's just that many old .34 personality traits do not have direct .40 replacements.

>> Cybernetics.
>Either wearable items (with dfhack) or workshop syndromes.
Most likely workshop syndromes.

> The turrets we have are a joke. The basic ones do pretty much nothing, 
If I remember correctly, that was because they only bruised and occasionally break bones. In .40, my test fort militia managed to buck a radscorpion to death ("its cex... explodes into gore!")
> the flamers are prone to friendly fire and burning things
I like to use them in a trap corridor to the caverns for ghouls
> and miniguns are better used for battle saddles.
Agreed.

>> the number of logs a tree produces.
>I think you can reduce trunk thickness to 1 and height to 3, giving 3 logs per tree.
Or I could just let us all be spoiled by the sheer amount of salvage we get.
Seriously though, once the personality system has been finished I will just post it irregardless of DFHack to just let you guys see and comment. Also, kinda sorry but due to a mistake in copying raws, I accidently used the raws with my drug add-on inside, hope you are okay with that.

Oh yeah, is there anything else for the crop revamp Lycaeon was planning other than simplifying the baking system?

Anyhow, gonna try and clear the errorlog before the end of today and start on re-balancing ranged weapons. Quit my test fort because I forgot to permit brew drinks reaction. Please let me know if you want me to post the updated raws.

UPDATE: Right now it's the end of the day, and I have yet to find replacements for these tags: ADVENTUROUSNESS,  MODESTY, COOPERATION, CAUTIONESS, EMOTIONALITY, SYMPATHY, STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS and INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY. Any help suggesting replacements is greatly appreciated.

[Destyvirago]

This is good news to hear that you are almost at the end of the error log. Would that mean that we would have a somewhat stable version for .40 that we can test on?  If we can get something running I could try to help to find bugs. No doubt there are things that will need to be tweaked for the .40 version.

You said you needed replacements for some tags. Maybe its my limited modding skills that are showing, but I am not sure I understand what you are asking for. If you use a standard .40 dwarf as a reference would you not see what tags are needed to make a workable pony? Are the tags you listed obsolete tags that only belong to the .34 version and can be cut from the .40 version? Just asking as my modding knowledge is limited.

I would also like to suggest that once you get a running version of F:Eq 0.40 going and that we bug squash the worst bugs, that you or Maklak should start a new tread called Fallout: Equestria 0.40. and post the mod there. Since Lycaeon is no longer with us and can update the thread with new information we need someone that cares about the mod that can maintain the thread with updated information. Information about the new drugs you have introduced should be with the other mod info at the front of the thread.

[Maklak]

> Would that mean that we would have a somewhat stable version for .40 that we can test on?
Something like that, but no dfhack means no itemsyndrome and without it buffs from power armours, autoinjectors and the like won't work.

> you [...] should start a new tread called Fallout: Equestria 0.40. and post the mod there.
I was going to suggest the same thing. Whoever controls the first post controls the mod and can post updates and manuals where people don't have to search for them.

[UnicodingUnicorn]

>> Would that mean that we would have a somewhat stable version for .40 that we can test on?
>Something like that, but no dfhack means no itemsyndrome and without it buffs from power armours, autoinjectors and the like won't work.
In addition to most end-game  industries, since if I remember correctly autoSyndrome is used to give the workshop worker the necessary interaction to do things.

>If we can get something running I could try to help to find bugs. No doubt there are things that will need to be tweaked for the .40 version.
I appreciate your support. After reading the above, do you still want the currently updated version without waiting for DFHack?

> Maybe its my limited modding skills that are showing, but I am not sure I understand what you are asking for.
Probably my bad phrasing skills, I meant that the [PERSONALITY] tag has some traits which are not directly replaced in .40, hence I am asking for help in selecting new traits that are roughly similar.
So far this is what I think:
 - INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY: ABSTRACT_INCLINED. Not an exact much, but descriptions in DF wiki seem similar
 - SYMPATHY: CRUELTY with reversed values. This is going to be painful, especially in creature_pony.txt
 - MODESTY: same as the above with IMMODESTY

> Are the tags you listed obsolete tags that only belong to the .34 version and can be cut from the .40 version?
Kind of, but I am really uncomfortable with removing tags unless there is a replacement for them, for example gaits replacing [SPEED] and [SWIM_SPEED].

>> you [...] should start a new tread called Fallout: Equestria 0.40. and post the mod there.
> I was going to suggest the same thing. Whoever controls the first post controls the mod and can post updates and manuals where people don't have to search for them.
I will, once DFHack is updated. Also, I am not too good with installing graphics packs/removing them, so I may need a tad bit of help there. I am assuming that you still play with the Phoebus graphics, please correct me if I am wrong to save my hair.
Come to think of it, can I only start a new thread once I finish Peace and Love as per this ?

> Since Lycaeon is no longer with us
No offence or anything, last time I checked he was last active on July 02 of this year, that was not so long ago.

Also, been reading through old posts, it seems that the crop revamp that Lycaeon had planned involved replacing most vanilla plants with ones from Fallout, better differentiating above-ground and underground crops, either remove dye plants or give them new uses and to simplify the baking system (add baguette swords as per Replica's request).

Any how, seeing as that I most probably failed a project today, I am in no mood for modding. Probably just gonna fool around in arena mode or something, see how bad firearms are.

UPDATE: Been playing around with gun ammunition values, realised that I forgot to ask how lethal do you think guns should be? Air rifles now tear muscle and occasionally fracture a bone, is this strong enough?

UPDATE UPDATE: Air rifles now fracture bone pretty easily on unarmoured targets, but only bruise anything with leather armor and above. I envision some sort of tier system for firearms, small caliber cannot injure combat armor and above while medium caliber cannot injure power armor and above. Large caliber can injure power armor and Unity shields.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE: Steel pellets do sometimes fracture through leather barding, but are deflected by security barding. This should be ok, steel is like the AP of ammunition anyway.

[Splint]

Being able to kill something with pistols besides a painfully lucky shot is already a step in the right direction for the firearms.

[Maklak]

> Pony castes.
It is better if you ask pony mod authours (Sorcerer, Lycaeon and so on) for the caste script over editing the big file.

> New thread.
It is of course up to you if and when you want to start a new thread, but actually on realease of a .40 version that works, has dfhack, graphics and a few enchancements over the 0.34 version would be when it most makes sense.

> > Since Lycaeon is no longer with us
> No offence or anything, last time I checked he was last active on July 02 of this year, that was not so long ago.
Then I guess he is lurking, but unwilling or unable to continue. Too bad, he doesn't even give you pointers.

> involved replacing most vanilla plants with ones from Fallout
Deon is working on his wasteland mod, so you might want to have a look. At least some ideas Lycaeon used came from previous version of the wateland mod. In any case, keeping tabs on other mods is probably a good idea. A lot of stuff in Pony Mods was developed elsewhere.

> Baking
I remember baking, but I forgot if it was in FoE or some old version of the (somewhat) show-accurate pony mod. In either case, I never got it to work.
> add baguette swords as per Replica's request
Wait, you want to add weapons made of bread? Why, that wouldn't even work at all? I though that was misspelled bayonet :/ 

> Air rifles now tear muscle and occasionally fracture a bone, is this strong enough?
Well, it is better than bruising the fat or doing nothing at all and somewhat on-par with old pistols, so good. I think air rifles should be at least somewhat viable for hunting radrats and the like, but far from deadly against ghouls and raiders (still able to wound as support if you have melee, though).

In addition to Deon's Wasteland, you might want to look at the stats for ranged weapons in these mods: Modern, WH40k (although these are probably overpowered).

You might also want to modify INORGANIC:SMALL_CALIBER and INORGANIC:MEDIUM_CALIBER in inorganic_misc.txt, speciffically increase SOLID_DENSITY because the other stats are already on par with steel. Come to think of it, MEDIUM_CALIBER is already heavier then even lead, but small calibre could use a stronger punch. Thoose are used by material emissions from basic turrets (SMALL_CALIBER) and minigun turrets, battle saddles and steel rangers (MEDIUM_CALIBER).

[Destyvirago]

>> Would that mean that we would have a somewhat stable version for .40 that we can test on?
>Something like that, but no dfhack means no itemsyndrome and without it buffs from power armours, autoinjectors and the like won't work.
In addition to most end-game  industries, since if I remember correctly autoSyndrome is used to give the workshop worker the necessary interaction to do things.

>If we can get something running I could try to help to find bugs. No doubt there are things that will need to be tweaked for the .40 version.
I appreciate your support. After reading the above, do you still want the currently updated version without waiting for DFHack?

I can give it a shot   

> Maybe its my limited modding skills that are showing, but I am not sure I understand what you are asking for.
Probably my bad phrasing skills, I meant that the [PERSONALITY] tag has some traits which are not directly replaced in .40, hence I am asking for help in selecting new traits that are roughly similar.
So far this is what I think:
 - INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY: ABSTRACT_INCLINED. Not an exact much, but descriptions in DF wiki seem similar
 - SYMPATHY: CRUELTY with reversed values. This is going to be painful, especially in creature_pony.txt
 - MODESTY: same as the above with IMMODESTY

> Are the tags you listed obsolete tags that only belong to the .34 version and can be cut from the .40 version?
Kind of, but I am really uncomfortable with removing tags unless there is a replacement for them, for example gaits replacing [SPEED] and [SWIM_SPEED].

>> you [...] should start a new tread called Fallout: Equestria 0.40. and post the mod there.
> I was going to suggest the same thing. Whoever controls the first post controls the mod and can post updates and manuals where people don't have to search for them.
I will, once DFHack is updated. Also, I am not too good with installing graphics packs/removing them, so I may need a tad bit of help there. I am assuming that you still play with the Phoebus graphics, please correct me if I am wrong to save my hair.
Come to think of it, can I only start a new thread once I finish Peace and Love as per this ?

That would work. Once DFHack is updated there would have to be a bit of bug testing to make sure everything works.

> Since Lycaeon is no longer with us
No offence or anything, last time I checked he was last active on July 02 of this year, that was not so long ago.

True, but his last post was basically him saying "Good luck" to those that wanted to continue the mod. Until he posts here saying that he wants to continue the mod himself we must assume that we have to carry on without him. 

Also, been reading through old posts, it seems that the crop revamp that Lycaeon had planned involved replacing most vanilla plants with ones from Fallout, better differentiating above-ground and underground crops, either remove dye plants or give them new uses and to simplify the baking system (add baguette swords as per Replica's request).

Any how, seeing as that I most probably failed a project today, I am in no mood for modding. Probably just gonna fool around in arena mode or something, see how bad firearms are.

UPDATE: Been playing around with gun ammunition values, realised that I forgot to ask how lethal do you think guns should be? Air rifles now tear muscle and occasionally fracture a bone, is this strong enough?

UPDATE UPDATE: Air rifles now fracture bone pretty easily on unarmoured targets, but only bruise anything with leather armor and above. I envision some sort of tier system for firearms, small caliber cannot injure combat armor and above while medium caliber cannot injure power armor and above. Large caliber can injure power armor and Unity shields.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE: Steel pellets do sometimes fracture through leather barding, but are deflected by security barding. This should be ok, steel is like the AP of ammunition anyway.

About guns and their power. Airguns can be made somewhat deadly and there is good historical grounds for doing so. Back in the 17th century some army units actually used airguns for warfare. The power was roughly like a modern day 9mm so it was deadly to be shot by them. Most recreational airguns of today are actually made to have very limited power in order to make them more safe. However it is possible to get airguns that can take down large game. I would imagine in a post apocalyptic scenario it would make sense to remove any limit to the power of the airguns as they would make a very decent hunting and defense tool that are very cheap to shoot.

What you said about the tier system for firearms makes sense to me, and if that could make weapons a bit more deadly than today that would be a great. For the moment small caliber and air guns just enrages the enemy without having enough stopping power to do anything before the shooter runs out of ammo. I feel that against normal unarmored targets they should actually be deadly. Ideally they should be able to deal with ghouls.

[Maklak]

To be fair, Lycaeon put BB guns in as a joke because many Fallout games had them as a joke. But the frustration of having useless weapons on start is a bit much and I think they should be buffed to be almost on par with what we have for pistols. Just make the ammo bronze or lead or copper or anything less effective than steel.

[UnicodingUnicorn]

> It is better if you ask pony mod authours (Sorcerer, Lycaeon and so on) for the caste script over editing the big file
The last post there is over a month ago...
And nothing beats find and replace

> It is of course up to you if and when you want to start a new thread, but actually on realease of a .40 version that works, has dfhack, graphics and a few enchancements over the 0.34 version would be when it most makes sense.
Personally I would rather start a new thread when an arc is complete.
>  graphics
So people still use those. Well, no time to learn like the present.

> Too bad, he doesn't even give you pointers.
To be fair, July was over a month before I started modding this.

> I remember baking, but I forgot if it was in FoE or some old version of the (somewhat) show-accurate pony mod. In either case, I never got it to work.
Baking was borrowed from the original pony mod.
> Wait, you want to add weapons made of bread? Why, that wouldn't even work at all? I though that was misspelled bayonet :/ 
Well, Replica did ask for it. And look at the season 4 finale.

> but far from deadly against ghouls and raiders
Pellets break ghoul bones, but since they have [NO_PAIN], it does not really matter much. Anything except for steel pellets just bruise the skin under the leather barding raiders wear.

> Thoose are used by material emissions from basic turrets (SMALL_CALIBER) and minigun turrets, battle saddles and steel rangers (MEDIUM_CALIBER).
I kind of have a problem, security turrets refuse to shoot things in Arena Mode.

> I can give it a shot   
Ok, uploading the file once personality traits are sorted out.

Anyway, been reading through old posts, apparently sprite bot/pipbuck performance propagation was originally Maklak's idea, so remind me to credit him for that.

Forgot to post the testing criteria for the guns. Each gun is tested on an earth pony wearing the appropriate armor by a legendary unicorn of the appropriate skill with bronze ammunition first, then steel. This tries to simulate what ammunition most forts will use.

Also, I have no idea what Lycaeon means by usage of drugs on prisoners. Any ideas? Also, what is your stand on the presence of vanilla plants in the mod?

UPDATE: The personality traits Adventurousness, Cooperation and Straightforwardness have been commented out due to lack of replacement options.
The updated version has been uploaded pre-installed here. The increased-power firearms are also included.
Small caliber weapons now penetrate up to security barding and medium caliber weapon now penetrate up to combat armor. I presume large caliber weapons are fine in the penetration front?

[Destyvirago]

Very nice. I'll give it a try now.

[Maklak]

> And nothing beats find and replace
Basically you'd be doing that on a mych smaller file, then run a perl script. But whatever works for you.

> >  graphics
> So people still use those. Well, no time to learn like the present.
To me Lazy Newb Pack and Phobeus Tileset were how I started playing the game in the first place. I fired up ascii half a year before, went "wtf is all this?" and quit. Now I can stomach the default graphics, but strongly prefer tilesets.

> Well, Replica did ask for it. And look at the season 4 finale.
You mean "Twilight's Kingdom"? I don't recall any bread weapons, much less effective ones, but then this fandom tends to obsess over little details visible in some episode for like 10 seconds. I remember when people proposed to have eypatches as decorative items after "It's about time". Oh well, I can just not use the parts I don't like, skip baking entirely and relay on old good 4 ingredient meals. 

> Pellets break ghoul bones, but since they have [NO_PAIN], it does not really matter much.
I think it is still fine as help to melee squads. Even some more bleeding and damage adds up. I also think that creatures have a limited number of dodges and blocks, so a bullet now and then may create an opening for a metchette.

> I kind of have a problem, security turrets refuse to shoot things in Arena Mode.
It would seem that creature sometimes don't use the interactions they have. A special issue with turrets may be that their strong attacks may target only strong creatures (ones with ENEMY), but I don't remember. Checking... yep, looks like it, at least for miniguns: [IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:ENEMY]

> sprite bot/pipbuck performance propagation was originally Maklak's idea
Huh? That must have been a long while ago, before I actually started reading RAWs and had wilder ideas.

> Each gun is tested on an earth pony wearing the appropriate armor by a legendary unicorn of the appropriate skill with bronze ammunition first, then steel. 
Hehe, safety first (that was a joke).
> This tries to simulate what ammunition most forts will use.
Heh, yeah, at least my forts. I tend to embark with some bronze ore and scrap is a bronze ore on top of that.

> Also, I have no idea what Lycaeon means by usage of drugs on prisoners. Any ideas?
I don't know. Some permament caste-changing effects from workshop reactions?

> Also, what is your stand on the presence of vanilla plants in the mod?
Cut most of them out. We're playing wasteland, not temperate forest with meadow.

> Small caliber weapons now penetrate up to security barding and medium caliber weapon now penetrate up to combat armor.
Ideally steel bullets should penetrate bronze armour and bronze bullets be stopped by steel armour.

> I presume large caliber weapons are fine in the penetration front?
I had little opportunity to test them (I got few snipers and tarinig them with hunting rifles was slow, then there was the problem of having AMR and making expensive ammo). I think if you're buffing all ranged weapons, large calibre should get a boost too.

I forgot, but I think I looked at some calculations and decided that the ammo in this mod is so slow that the only thing that effectively matters for it's kinetic energy is SHOOT_MAXVEL and not SHOOT_FORCE. I think shoot force and ammo weight are taken into consideration when calculating projectile velocity, but it is capped at SHOOT_MAXVEL. DF crossbows have ammo sizes at over 100 cubic centimetres and bullets are 7 or less. But it was some time ago and I may be wrong.

Hm, by looking at the RAWs it would seem that combat rifles are slightly more powerful than hunting rifles and it should be the other way around. Same with pistols and revolvers.

Little Macintosh should have ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:2, like the rest of revolvers and pistols.

SHOOT_MAXVEL for high calibre rifles and spitfire's thunder is now so close to combat rifles that the biggest difference is ammo size.

I haven't looked at more RAWs.

[UnicodingUnicorn]

> Very nice. I'll give it a try now.
Have fun.

>> And nothing beats find and replace
> Basically you'd be doing that on a mych smaller file, then run a perl script. But whatever works for you.
"That was a joke...HAHA...Fat chance." (Another joke)

> You mean "Twilight's Kingdom"?
That stained glass window Discord was messing with. To be fair, it was intended to be a joke.

> To me Lazy Newb Pack and Phobeus Tileset were how I started playing the game in the first place. I fired up ascii half a year before, went "wtf is all this?" and quit. Now I can stomach the default graphics, but strongly prefer tilesets.
Ok, uploading the Phoebus version later tonight.

> Huh? That must have been a long while ago, before I actually started reading RAWs and had wilder ideas.
It's still your idea.

> I don't know. Some permament caste-changing effects from workshop reactions?
I meant, what effects could drugs have on prisoners? I was thinking about a mixture of Buck and Dash increasing their endurance and maybe taking away [FLEEQUICK]. Asking around my classmates also gave drugs as sedatives and execution.

> Cut most of them out. We're playing wasteland, not temperate forest with meadow.
Ok, I presume this is for above-ground plants. How about subterranean?
Right now for vanilla plants the only things of note are rope reed, whip vine and longland grass, which give cloth and flour respectively. The rest are just edible raw brewable generic plants, except for rat weed, which is not edible raw.
Checking Deon's Wasteland mod reveals some plants Lycaeon has already added in. Apart from that, there are agave bushes, which only yield tequila, hemp and cotton plants which yield thread and millable rock nut like seeds, corn and wheat which give grain, potatoes and other food-only crops and some strange plants which I assume are for drinks.
Of these, if we are following his mod, I would prefer to just have one of each class (Fiber, Processable, Normal and Special-Product) to keep things simple. If possible, I would like to merge several of the crops together, for example tubers in the current mod being merged with yams and such.

> Ideally steel bullets should penetrate bronze armour and bronze bullets be stopped by steel armour.
You have no idea how much time I have spent trying to make this work, but I think I'm close.

> I think if you're buffing all ranged weapons, large calibre should get a boost too.
> SHOOT_MAXVEL for high calibre rifles and spitfire's thunder is now so close to combat rifles that the biggest difference is ammo size.
Okay, after medium-caliber weapons.

> Hm, by looking at the RAWs it would seem that combat rifles are slightly more powerful than hunting rifles and it should be the other way around. Same with pistols and revolvers.
Okay, will be switching things.

> Little Macintosh should have ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:2, like the rest of revolvers and pistols.
Changed.

> I haven't looked at more RAWs.
Take your time.

Also, just asking, what are your opinions now on mainframes? Been reading old posts, mainframes that reprogram Stable-Tec matrices into Ministry matrices sound like a good part of a Stable-Tec arc I plan to do after Peace and Love and before Everfree (refer to Lycaeon's development list).

Should shale be refinable into flamer fuel (not a 1:1 ratio)?

UPDATE: Phoebus graphics set version
Getting combat rifles to kill things but not kill things in steel combat armour is proving to be extremely irritating.

[Splint]

If it's too much of a headache, tone them down slightly, beef up the larger caliber weapons, and just chalk it up to a case of "Hit it enough times and it'll break." After all, an assault rifle in Fallout might not be the best choice to fight a pissed off Paladin or Enclave soldier, but it'll get the job done.