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[Helgoland]

Surprisingly, there does not yet seem to be a thread on this topic. This is the place to discuss:

-How far should European integration go?
-What should the European Union look like politically?
-What would be the impact of greater/lesser integration on domestic, foreign and economic issues?

It may be best to not specifically focus on the Crisis, but I guess to some degree that will be inevitable. Still, please remember: This is not a thread mainly for day-to-day politics!

And, just to make the lines of argument more clear:
If you are making the case for greater integration, color your argument green.
If you are making the case for lesser integration, color your argument red.
If you are discussing the political structure of the EU, color your arguments blue.

This will allow for easy collection of arguments and ideas in the OP so we will not be doomed to endless repetitions. That being said:

Have at it!

[Zrk2]

This is gonna be good. While I know nothing about the EU I can't see it forming a nation-state simply because the cultures it encompasses are too diverse, and the history too divisive for it to be combined into one state.

[Flying Dice]

This is gonna be good. While I know nothing about the EU I can't see it forming a nation-state simply because the cultures it encompasses are too diverse, and the history too divisive for it to be combined into one state.

This, pretty much. They've got centuries of established cultural and political divisions working against integration. At best it might be possible to form a federation with slightly closer ties than the EU, but that's about all I can foresee barring a major paradigm shift.

[Pnx]

Yeah, there's way too many people who would go around thinking "We don't want to be ruled by ____". It might be a lot easier if everyone spoke the same language, or all had similar backgrounds, but that's just not the case. Most of the people in the EU have been at war with just about everyone else in the EU at one time or another. The hatchet may more or less be buried these days, but there's still a lot of old grievances and prejudices lingering around.

That said I think if everyone did get over themselves and put a lot of effort into working together, I think the EU could benefit a lot if it had a top down government (where if there's a large enough vote for it, the government at the top can overrule what governments at the bottom want) rather than the bottom up government where unless everyone agrees, nothing can be done.

[Muz]

We haven't had a European war in 2 generations. You'd think that'd be enough to lose old grievances. (edit: Well, ok, there was that Bosnian War, but I don't recall another.)

[majikero]

I don't see it happening. I mean there are city-states that whats independence and there are countries with smaller population than some cities.

[Thecard]

Well, I'm 'Murican.  Only other country I've been to is Canada.
But I'm actually fascinated with European History.  And I honestly can't see Europe joining together.  It's dense, diverse, and nationalistic.

[majikero]

Unless you go the American way and kill the natives and replace them with your own people.

[Max White]

Is would never work. That would mean that France would have to reveal its hidden orbital ion cannon, Germany would be forced to show us the super mutants, and Italy would be found stock piling mass amounts of holy water.
Everybody has too many skeletons in the cupboard to ever join together.

[Thecard]

Is would never work. That would mean that France would have to reveal its hidden orbital ion cannon white flag, Germany would be forced to show us the super mutants, and Italy would be found stock piling mass amounts of holy water.
Everybody has too many skeletons in the cupboard to ever join together.

Fixed that for you.
But joking aside, you're right about not joining.  Europe just doesn't like each other.  It's like a family: they get along, and don't actually kill each other, but damnit they try.

[Flying Dice]

Unless you go the American way and kill the natives and replace them with your own people.

So you're suggesting that the U.S. invade/colonize Europe, force the Europeans into reservations (in Siberia, perhaps?), in order to unify Europe?

That would certainly be an amusing turnabout. Apart from the whole mass-genocide and forced migration. But hey, you can't make a freedom omelet without killing all of the chickens for not laying eggs the way you want them to. The chickens are the Cherokee. Or would they be the French now? I think that metaphor has flown the coop.

[Digital Hellhound]

I have no idea if it could work, but a more unified EU does appeal to me.

Okay, chiefly because I just want to see Europe considered a nation for mapmaking purposes. Especially if colored - imagine the size of that beautiful blue blob!

[scriver]

Fuck the union.

[Darvi]

I would bring make another Luxembourg World Order derail, but what scriver said.

[Aptus]

I have no idea if it could work, but a more unified EU does appeal to me.

Okay, chiefly because I just want to see Europe considered a nation for mapmaking purposes. Especially if colored - imagine the size of that beautiful blue blob!

Blue, are you mad? It should be magenta or my country will secede!