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[Corai]

Gah, meant to edit.

[Grek]

Searching Vindel's shop in general is a good plan, not just for healing items.

And yes, we do want to retain the option of cutting off our hand if we are given a suicidal order. But short of that, we should not actually cut our hand off.

[Fireiy]

Fine, don't tell him about it and look around for stuff like you suggested.

[racnor]

EUREKA! I have the solution. If we hear Vindel give us a command, we have to obey it, but if we can't hear anything, he can't command us. Plug our ears with wax or something, and use our eon magic to distort time around our head so that everything we do hear is unintelligible. Then we can just tie Vindel to his bed/ barricade him in the basement and not have to worry about his orders. We can even reinforce the rope/door with eon magic to protect our possessions if is looks like he's going to escape.We should, however, make these preparations at night, outside the house, and whatever room we trap him in should have no enchanting supplies whatsoever.

b) Look for loopholes, find allies, weaken the magic and so on. ( Minus: It's damn hard to intrigue if you must answer questions like "What are you trying to do to get out? What did you do last night? " And if Vindel is not an idiot he'll ask that. While half-truth may help, most likely it will not. IMO it's a worst route

This sort of twisty logic requires even twistier logic to counteract: We must precommit ourselves to preemptively abandoning all escape plans that are in danger of being discovered within the immediate future due to us being forced to answer questions about them. That way, when asked "What do you plan to do to escape?" we are forced to honestly answer that we've given up on all of our plans to escape because we know he'll figure them out.

E: Also, we should come up with some unworkable and stupid plans to escape so that we have something to tell him when he asks "Well, what DID you plan to do to escape?"

This is a good idea. We can also remind ourselves that this is not an escape plan, because we will still be here. Finally, if he asks "what did you plan to do to escape", we can honestly say that we though of cutting our arm off, so that huge argument everyone just had was actually very productive.

[GreatWyrmGold]

but I try to put myself in the mind of the character, who is at risk and doesn't realise that he's the protagonist

Oh, so you want to roleplay a coward, OK. Then your suggestions are perfectly logical. I'd like to see another kind of character

I have a trope for you. It's not cowardice, it's wanting to live longer and better.

Also, this elf strikes me as the type to kill us if we end up doing more harm than good

Why kill us if he can order anything?

Because we're doing more harm than good?

We're not a slave, we have too much freedom.

As long as we get no worse orders.

And we WILL get worse orders if we go about our rebellion all obvious-like.

Sure.
Work within his rules and use every ambiguity and loophole against him.

So, in short: "Do nothing and hope for the best?" Let him use us? Let him create enemies for ourself? Let him send us on any suicide mission he wants?

Um...Thanks for strawmanning me! No, take his orders literally. If he has us bring him water, flood the house because he didn't tell us to stop. Ignore his orders that would require us to be outside during daylight hours, because he told us not to. Stuff like that.

Oh... And just a little "let's find what can go wrong" from me

-Send a bird to Alice. She owes us one and can come help break us out.

Terrible, the bird could work on Vindel, elves are known to employ animals.

True enough, so we wander a ways away before choosing the bird, and we bribe it with food. That way, the bird flies fast to Alice and Vindel won't know until Alice has been contacted. Unless he questions every animal leaving his neck of the woods, which seems rather paranoid and impractical.

-Survey the area at night for good escape routes once we do break free.

Terrible. What if someone sees us? That will create so many problems. Let's sit entire night in the basement. It's safe.  Besides what can Alice do? We decided that Vindel is unbeatable ubermage

When did we decide that Vindel was unbeatable? I was talking about him repeating his exact, same victory, only with more knowledge and a weaker night troll.
And anything we do has a risk of being seen. Besides, that would be a good thing; people wonder why a night troll sprinted to Vindel's residence after being seen.

[quite]

Examine the enchanting workshop during the night and look for a book on enchantment so we can disenchant the bracelet.

Oh, Vindel will be mad when he finds that attempt, besides we can hurt ourself by trying enchantments
[/quote]
Well, if we succeed, he won't be able to do much. With us at full strength, he'll have a lower chance of defeating us in combat, and without the bracelet that's all he'll have. And we can be hurt by anything we do.

If all else fails, send Vindel as far into the future as we can and just wait it out in Vindel's workshop.

Terrible. Doubt that we can do that, besides if we fail he will be mad at us and much more cautious (this time I am serious)

This, I agree with. I think the GM said that temporal manipulation would be beyond our leash to do to him.
We could, however, wait until he was in danger, then "save" him by catapulting him a few decades into the future....

I vote that we ignore Ukrainian Ranger on the grounds that he is enormously butthurt about us not listening to his suggestion.

And he's making strawmen.
"Oh, you want to avoid making yourself weaker before battling someone who defeated you? You're a coward and think Vindel is unbeatable!"

I vote that we ignore Ukrainian Ranger on the grounds that he is enormously butthurt about us not listening to his suggestion.

LOL. I just like discussion, even if they are a bit rough. Just posting a suggestion or +1 isn't really fun

You know what else isn't fun? Being strawmanned.

I have a suggestion that is feasible, although it may have backlash that we cannot necessarily predict.  We could incriminate our intrepid master in the crimes that we know he has committed.
Something to think about, he doesn't seem to know... that we know, his other companions may also crack if the rumor breaks out.

So, you want to make enemies for our master. How do you think who will fight against that enemies?

Vindel will fight against the enemies and hopefully weaken himself. Or ruin his public image.

Basically we have only three basic ways to deal with the situation
a) Do nothing, cooperate with Vindel and hope that something good happens ( minus: Eventually he will use us for something that we really don't want to do)
b) Look for loopholes, find allies, weaken the magic and so on. ( Minus: It's damn hard to intrigue if you must answer questions like "What are you trying to do to get out? What did you do last night? " And if Vindel is not an idiot he'll ask that. While half-truth may help, most likely it will not. IMO it's a worst route
c) Find a way to get rid of the bracelet NOW (Minus: It's not easy to do)

I think b has the least chance of immediate punishment. And we can claim that we were only following his orders like the bracelet ordered us to.

If he asks, just say we were planning on cutting off our arm or something

Gods, no... Then you'll take away option to get rid of hand if we get a suicidal order. I really can't understand why everyone is so opposed to this solution with temporal injury but at least do not take it as last rersort

Wrong, I consider it a last resort.

If I am correct, we have fire magic. And the bracelet is steel. It may be impossibly painful, but would it be possible to melt the bracelet off with enough fire?

If we can't send it in the future, then we can't melt it away. Besides arm damage would be so severe that it's no better than chopping it off

Slightly better--there's a higher chance we can get healed and a lower chance of exsanguination. We'll consider it if we need to.

Can we at least search Vindel shop for healing magic? As enchanter he may have that.
and\or Look for healer in the town

I'd advise putting that stuff off a day, and spend the first night investigating our surroundings.

EUREKA! I have the solution. If we hear Vindel give us a command, we have to obey it, but if we can't hear anything, he can't command us. Plug our ears with wax or something, and use our eon magic to distort time around our head so that everything we do hear is unintelligible. Then we can just tie Vindel to his bed/ barricade him in the basement and not have to worry about his orders. We can even reinforce the rope/door with eon magic to protect our possessions if is looks like he's going to escape.We should, however, make these preparations at night, outside the house, and whatever room we trap him in should have no enchanting supplies whatsoever.

Good idea. Best wait to spring our plan into action when we're acting on it, ideally shortly after he's given us permission to leave before dark, so we can run to the tower and escape to safety.

[auote]

b) Look for loopholes, find allies, weaken the magic and so on. ( Minus: It's damn hard to intrigue if you must answer questions like "What are you trying to do to get out? What did you do last night? " And if Vindel is not an idiot he'll ask that. While half-truth may help, most likely it will not. IMO it's a worst route

This sort of twisty logic requires even twistier logic to counteract: We must precommit ourselves to preemptively abandoning all escape plans that are in danger of being discovered within the immediate future due to us being forced to answer questions about them. That way, when asked "What do you plan to do to escape?" we are forced to honestly answer that we've given up on all of our plans to escape because we know he'll figure them out.

E: Also, we should come up with some unworkable and stupid plans to escape so that we have something to tell him when he asks "Well, what DID you plan to do to escape?"

This is a good idea. We can also remind ourselves that this is not an escape plan, because we will still be here. Finally, if he asks "what did you plan to do to escape", we can honestly say that we though of cutting our arm off, so that huge argument everyone just had was actually very productive.
[/quote]
Yup.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

racnorYour idea is quite creative and original one, but there are several problems

a) It's damn hard to tie up someone with enchanted dagger when you have no unarmed combat skills, can't hurt the victim and inside his magical basement
b) He may give orders with gestures that are hard to not understand
c) There are no guarantee that our body will not obey orders that we don't understand

____________________

I dislike the idea to delay escape attempts because it's highly likely that escape will become harder in future and\or we'll get a bad job, even this set of rules is hard to circumvent, and he'll add more and more. Simple orders like - "don't injury yourself" "don't use magic unless commanded to" "don't touch my stuff" "Don't tell anyone about your bond"  will enslave us until either he is dead (not by our efforts, we'll have no options) or our magic resistance kick in. This elf underestimated our intelligence, but I'd not count that this will continue forever

Even that set of rules give very  few ways to escape.
1) Find an ally that can remove the bracelet\kill Vindel
2) Cut our arm
3) Somehow make Vindel unable to give orders without hurting him (Still we'll stay tied to basement, unpleasant at least
4) Various eon tricks. But I see no nice ones. I dislike my time manipulating ideas

a) Jumping in past, when spell wasn't active. But it's way more dangerous than cutting arm  (All resulting paradoxes will have "fun" effects even if spell is successful)
b) Jump forward in time right before dawn to the next night, technically we'll be outdoors only at night ( but it's not easy to jump accurately)
c) creating a time bubble around the basement, we need to be "home" when it's day in the basement, if night will be permanent inside (But that's GM decision, that may not work )
d) Seal yourself in the bubble with the fastened time, waiting until resistance kicks in (Spell is too complex and food\water is a problem)
________________-
And chapter number many in the discussion

Because we're doing more harm than good?

What stops him from stopping us to to do harm?

Um...Thanks for strawmanning me! No, take his orders literally. If he has us bring him water, flood the house because he didn't tell us to stop. Ignore his orders that would require us to be outside during daylight hours, because he told us not to. Stuff like that.

Yep, it's exactly hoping for the best. ( Or hoping that our kind GM that will gift an opportunity like that) Also, I doubt that ignoring order because it's going against older order works. (GM decision in fact, can be either way)
Being evil genie may be fun when you are very mighty and can't get killed by the master, else that works badly.
Chances are that we'll get orders that will bring us in trouble, not Vindel

Slightly better--there's a higher chance we can get healed and a lower chance of exsanguination. We'll consider it if we need to.

What? Higher chance? If you cleanly cut an arm and bring it to modern surgeons in time, they can reattach it and the arm will be close to normal, but badly burned hand will stay injured forever.

Good idea. Best wait to spring our plan into action when we're acting on it, ideally shortly after he's given us permission to leave before dark, so we can run to the tower and escape to safety.

Now, I am really confused...  Looks like it's not a risk averseness after all.... You are sure that Vindel can easily defeat onearmed troll that can do whatever he wants. You are sure that he will easily defeat a freshly born night troll. And you think it's a good idea to try to tie him up when we have limitations much more severe than onearmlessnes. Can't understand the logic. We can't even scratch him in struggle.

[GreatWyrmGold]

racnorYour idea is quite creative and original one, but there are several problems

a) It's damn hard to tie up someone with enchanted dagger when you have no unarmed combat skills, can't hurt the victim and inside his magical basement
b) He may give orders with gestures that are hard to not understand
c) There are no guarantee that our body will not obey orders that we don't understand

a. His plan doesn't need combat like yours.
b. That is a legitimate problem, but how many orders could that be? We're clever, let's misinterpret the gestures.
c. That could be an issue...

I dislike the idea to delay escape attempts because it's highly likely that escape will become harder in future and\or we'll get a bad job, even this set of rules is hard to circumvent, and he'll add more and more. Simple orders like - "don't injury yourself" "don't use magic unless commanded to" "don't touch my stuff" "Don't tell anyone about your bond"  will enslave us until either he is dead (not by our efforts, we'll have no options) or our magic resistance kick in. This elf underestimated our intelligence, but I'd not count that this will continue forever

Hopefully, the elf would be complacent, but that's a dumb bet to make.
I suggest we spend a day assessing our situation. Then we go onto preparations, and make our escape on the third or fourth night.

Because we're doing more harm than good?

What stops him from stopping us to to do harm?

Nothing, but we will either find new ways to bother by the book. Or bother him enough that he kills us...let's hope the first.

Um...Thanks for strawmanning me! No, take his orders literally. If he has us bring him water, flood the house because he didn't tell us to stop. Ignore his orders that would require us to be outside during daylight hours, because he told us not to. Stuff like that.

Yep, it's exactly hoping for the best. ( Or hoping that our kind GM that will gift an opportunity like that) Also, I doubt that ignoring order because it's going against older order works. (GM decision in fact, can be either way)
Being evil genie may be fun when you are very mighty and can't get killed by the master, else that works badly.
Chances are that we'll get orders that will bring us in trouble, not Vindel

I was giving examples that popped into my head; any further orders will be followed by me coming up with ways to twist them to our advantage.
Being a literal genie isn't bad if the master won't hurt you, like you claim he wouldn't.

Slightly better--there's a higher chance we can get healed and a lower chance of exsanguination. We'll consider it if we need to.

What? Higher chance? If you cleanly cut an arm and bring it to modern surgeons in time, they can reattach it and the arm will be close to normal, but badly burned hand will stay injured forever.

With modern tech and no magic.
But this isn't important and I agree with you in principal, so let's drop it.

Good idea. Best wait to spring our plan into action when we're acting on it, ideally shortly after he's given us permission to leave before dark, so we can run to the tower and escape to safety.

Now, I am really confused...  Looks like it's not a risk averseness after all.... You are sure that Vindel can easily defeat onearmed troll that can do whatever he wants. You are sure that he will easily defeat a freshly born night troll. And you think it's a good idea to try to tie him up when we have limitations much more severe than onearmlessnes. Can't understand the logic. We can't even scratch him in struggle.

How is deafness worse than being one-armed and exsanguinated? If he can't give orders, we don't need to follow them..

Anyways, I just remembered a good quote.
" Dr. Susan Calvin also warns that the increasingly psychotic robot could actually learn to passive-aggressively Kill All Humans with the changed Law; for example, by holding a heavy crate that it knew it could catch over a human's head, letting it go, and not acting to stop it."
(From TV Tropes)
We might be able to wait until Vindel sleeps, drop a sword we could catch onto him, and not catch it. If we take our time, threat gone. Unless I forgot something in Vindel's commands, of course.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

OK, enough discussions time for an action

How about that?
a) Wander around, learn surroundings.
b) Find flying animal ( bird, bat or swarm of flying insects ) and send message to Alice. Don't do it to close to the basement
c) Try to locate night creatures nearby

and

d) Don't touch Vindel stuff. It's highly likely that he has traps\alarms. In fact it's an almost certainty, he is a master in exactly that kind of magic

[Weirdsound]

Character:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: the Male Night Troll "My father says I earn a name when people fear me enough to give me one."

Physical Traits:
Broken Left Arm
Tattooed Arms "Prevents me from getting magic fatigued as easily, and even helps out a bit with casting. Also: Fashionable."
Springy Legs "I wish I could fly, but being able to jump like a flea and kick peoples ribs in is the next best thing."
Camouflaged Body "I can be invisible... at a glance or at a distance."
Hypnotic Gaze "I'm good at disabling a mortal's self preservation instinct... not so good at predicting his actions once I do."

Skills:
Eon Manipulation (+4) "Eon Manipulation is a family tradition. I hope to someday be as good as my father..."
Stealth (+4) "They can't escape what they can't see!"
Dark Manipulation (+2) "The night is my birthright and my greatest ally..."
Night Creature Empathy (+1) "Because it pays to be friends with other night dwellers."
Communication (+1) "Even for one as hideous as myself, a silver tongue goes a long way!"

Inventory:
A cursed bracelet of binding (Worn, right arm)
An Elf Tooth Charm Necklace (Worn)
Alchemist's Work Outfit [Shirt, Apron, Pants] (Worn)
-7 Fistfulls of Oak Ash (In pocket)
-1 Flask of Oil [4/5 Full] (In pocket)
-1 Flint Fire-starter Kit (In pocket)
-1 Pair of Forceps (In pocket)
-1 Handheld mirror (In pocket)
-2 Large Rubies (In Pocket)
-1 Human Stomach of Phyros [Magically Preserved] (In Pocket)
-1 Human Brain of Phyros [Magically Preserved] (In Pocket)
-1 Medium Sized Jar Labeled 'Ghost Pepper Jam' (In Pocket)
-1 Small Sack of Grey Powder Labeled 'Phoenix Ash' (In Pocket)
-1 Small Sack of Assorted Dragon Bits [Small Bones, Scales, Teeth, Ect] (In Pocket)
-1 Small Sack Labeled 'Warning: Gunpowder' (In Pocket)
-1 Book Titled 'The Utility of Fire: Basic Flame Manipulation for Non-Combat Use' (In Pocket)
-1 Book Titled 'Intro to the Inferno: The Scourge's Guide to Flame Manipulation' (In Pocket)
-1 Book Titled 'The Devil's Cookbook: Alchemy for Those Lacking in Moral Fiber' (In Pocket)
Thick Belt (Worn)
-1 Large Knife (Sheathed, Hanging from Belt)
"Well at least my master let me keep my belongings."

Perks:
Magic Perks
Budding Animal Empath: You will gain the animal empathy skill if you succeed in 2 animal empathy actions, or successfully study it in a book
Improving Eon Mage: Your Eon magic skill will increase if you succeed in 4 successful Eon Manipulation actions, or train extensively with a superior eon manipulator twice.
Time Displacement Specialist: Take a +1 to any attempt to send something foward in time.
Budding Fire Manipulator: You will gain the fire manipulation skill if you succeed in 2 fire manipulation actions or train with somebody who has it
Aspiring Water Manipulator: You will gain the water manipulation skill if you succeed in 6 water manipulation actions, or train extensively with somebody who has it
Fire Manipulation Utility Theory: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using non-destructive fire magic
Fire Manipulation Combat Theory: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using fire magic to destroy, kill, or maim
Bug Speaker: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using animal empathy on bugs

Reproductive Perks
Mature: You are physically and mentally capable of converting and impregnating mates. To do so you must spend a "Gift" perk. "Gift" perks can be gained by rolling very high, learning new skills, or through other supernatural means. If you create a child it may be born with some traits of it's mother in addition to whatever gift you use to conceive it.
First Gift: Can be spent to convert or impregnate a mate. The night troll created will have your four physical features. Gifts that grant more than two traits are rare, so this may be worth saving for somebody special.
Gift of Displacement: Can be spent to convert or impregnate a mate. The night troll created will have the ability to blink forward short distances through time and/or space.

Recipes:
Drought of Perception Blotting: Causes the drinker to become invisible to members of a single sentient race unless the drinker tries to get their attention or is pointed out to them.
-1 Brain of the Race you wish to be not noticed by
-1 Fistfull of ash from burned oak
-1 1 Large Mug of digestive juices from a mammal

OK, enough discussions time for an action

How about that?
a) Wander around, learn surroundings.
b) Find flying animal ( bird, bat or swarm of flying insects ) and send message to Alice. Don't do it to close to the basement
c) Try to locate night creatures nearby

and

d) Don't touch Vindel stuff. It's highly likely that he has traps\alarms. In fact it's an almost certainty, he is a master in exactly that kind of magic

(I agree. The discussion was fun to read but not entirely conclusive. Lets go with your action for now, and wait on a grand escape/revenge plan until the discussion becomes one sided or somebody has the patience to tally up votes for me. Usually I've just been picking the suggestions I like, but the discussion is becoming heated and I'd rather not take sides unless I have too)

You circle the perimeter of Oakworshiped a few times, getting a feel for the place.

The east side is seedy sort of place. Shops advertising cures, booze, fortune telling, magical goods, and hard drugs are common here; Vindel's shop is among them. This part of town is fairly busy at night, with whores and barflies wander from place to place, so you leap from branch to branch in the dark rather than risk detection by walking on ground level.

The south side of the settlement seems to be where a vast majority of the non elves live; even some of the trees have been removed to make room for more brick, stone, and metal block housing. You are sure your mother, who never could fully abandon elven culture, would break down in tears at the sight of such encroachment and the knowledge that the local elves are tolerating it. The southern neighborhoods are fairly deserted after dark, but you do note that most of the houses keep canines of various sorts that could foil your attempts to sneak around.

You run into a fence on the western corner of town, heavily patrolled by guards on the other side; following it to a gate you learn from a posted sign that on the other side lies the town's international market which is closed at night. If you could brave the guards it might be good looting.

The traditional even layout, treeborn tents and lodges, still exists on the north side of the retreat. You spot a few uninhabited yet well decorated Oaks which you assume must use for ritual and prayer. A few large stone buildings do however stand in the area and they are too big to be houses; armory's perhaps?

Finally you move inward, away from edge and into the heart of Oakworshiped, where you quickly discover a huge and beautiful complex of buildings weaved from enchanted trees, marble, native gold, and dyed cloth. You know instantly that this must be where the government meets and the nobles (likely including Clairia, Vindel's love interest of high birth) live.

After a brief rest to take in the admittedly beautiful settlement from a perch on a small hill, you head out of civilization and into the wild untamed forest, in search of a bird or bat to befriend.

---

About 30 minutes out of town you spot movement out of the corner of your eye - heading right for you. Before you can react a large club catches you hard in the left arm, shattering several bones and sending you tumbling to the ground. You look up to see your attacker, a huge Sasquatch at least three times your size, slowly winding up for another attack with his weapon of choice.

You are rather glad that you cannot feel pain or fear...

Encounter Roll: 1d20 = 1 - 3(No Skill Useable for Navigation) + 1(You see better at night) = -2(OUCH! NAT 1)

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Few last turns our luck is ****
On other hand now Vindel will have to heal us, and that will be useful

As for what to do: Leap away to safe distance and try to communicate with Sasquatch

[GreatWyrmGold]

OK, enough discussions time for an action

How about that?
a) Wander around, learn surroundings.
b) Find flying animal ( bird, bat or swarm of flying insects ) and send message to Alice. Don't do it to close to the basement
c) Try to locate night creatures nearby

and

d) Don't touch Vindel stuff. It's highly likely that he has traps\alarms. In fact it's an almost certainty, he is a master in exactly that kind of magic

If the turn hadn't already been posted, I would agree with you.

I agree, jump away and chat with the Sasquatch. They're clever, right?

[racnor]

OK, enough discussions time for an action

How about that?
a) Wander around, learn surroundings.
b) Find flying animal ( bird, bat or swarm of flying insects ) and send message to Alice. Don't do it to close to the basement
c) Try to locate night creatures nearby

and

d) Don't touch Vindel stuff. It's highly likely that he has traps\alarms. In fact it's an almost certainty, he is a master in exactly that kind of magic

If the turn hadn't already been posted, I would agree with you.

I agree, jump away and chat with the Sasquatch. They're clever, right?

+1, lets put night creature empathy to work.

[Grek]

Agreed.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Wait, sasquatches are night creatures?

[racnor]

they aren't animals and they aren't humans, so whats left?(or they might be animals, in which case we should be considerably further away when we chat with it.