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Author Topic: question about power & machines ?  (Read 1519 times)

Nokao

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question about power & machines ?
« on: November 07, 2012, 01:46:42 pm »

Hi !

Can many watermill and windmill generated power go in a single axle line?
And then divided to this line to different energy consuming machines ?

This is because I need to make an average of windmills that have very variable energy production and also I need so much to take water up a mountain.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 02:10:14 pm by Nokao »
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AutomataKittay

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 02:19:37 pm »

Yes, you can, once power's been made from water or wind, it's all just power! Gears let you split up or put together power, it takes and gives power above and under, and on four sides directly against it!

In fact, it's pretty much recommended to only have one axle if you're transmitting power over distance, they does use up power, gears uses more up :D
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greycat

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 07:46:57 pm »

As far as I know, there is no limit on the amount of power you can transmit through an axle.
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Azated

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 09:18:55 pm »

As far as I know, there is no limit on the amount of power you can transmit through an axle.

I've read of people making super-reactors that generate thousands of units of power, so if there is a limit, we haven't found it yet.
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AutomataKittay

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 05:10:27 am »

As far as I know, there is no limit on the amount of power you can transmit through an axle.

I've read of people making super-reactors that generate thousands of units of power, so if there is a limit, we haven't found it yet.

I've seen a few models that's into tens of thousands, I imagine the ultimate amount of power through any one system would probably be nearly a million or so! Though -reasonable- amount of power extractable on a standard 4x4 embark would probably be in low thousands range.
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Nokao

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 08:01:37 am »

I'm trying to take a river up some z levels, it's a 3 tile wide river.

Do you think I should renounce and pull up a 1 or 2 tiles river,
or it's doable ?

I'm beginning with windmills but I think I'll make a water reactor in the end ..

AutomataKittay

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 08:06:58 am »

I'm trying to take a river up some z levels, it's a 3 tile wide river.

Do you think I should renounce and pull up a 1 or 2 tiles river,
or it's doable ?

I'm beginning with windmills but I think I'll make a water reactor in the end ..

People's drained oceans, so it's possible! It's matter of asking yourself if it's worth the effort and what you can gather up to put to it. If it's for some practical purpose, then it's better to scale it to how much you're expecting to use.
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Nokao

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 09:25:06 am »

The purpose is a main 3x3 waterfall in the centre of the fortress,now I'm doing it with a 1 tile canal and I would like to do it better,and from higher z level than 0 so up the hill.

I'll also try the map seed that someone posted on the forum with 4 rivers crossing.
I would like to make that the center... But I need the water to froze to make the excavations ...
I'm trying to take a river up some z levels, it's a 3 tile wide river.

Do you think I should renounce and pull up a 1 or 2 tiles river,
or it's doable ?

I'm beginning with windmills but I think I'll make a water reactor in the end ..
This damn game is so complicate ... love it
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 10:52:45 am by Nokao »
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Starver

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 09:52:11 am »

As far as I know, there is no limit on the amount of power you can transmit through an axle.
At one point there was a cap (40d times, mayhap?), I'm fairly sure.  Huge wind-farm arrays collating their power together would only go so far[1].  But that cap was removed/vastly increased or something, as I recall, and as evidence by everyone else who said something about trhe current state of affairs, just here.


[1] After a while, I remember that people said it was better to start a second farm and send a second vertical axle chain down to a second magmapump/whatever than try to add more on to power a single larger pump.  For particularly 'deep' embark locations/worldgens, from the pre-caverns days.
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Nokao

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 11:01:31 am »

By cavern days, you mean that when someone discover a cavern should transfer there ?

Now I'm deciding how to go on ... I have a fortress with 350 dwarves, economy is ok and also food seems good.
But I never produced weapons and clothes (just used the market for that) and I want to start.

So I mined down and found 2 different magma sources, should I make another fortress near there or not ?

I also have the idea to start again from zero, because this game is very complete and hard, when you find a way to solve a problem, another one comes out.

Like for example diseases, I readed NOW on the wiki that clean the dwarves with water was a good idea, and my actual fortress don't have anymore the possibility to make "waterfalls" on the entrance/exits for healt purposes (I just planned a waterfall in the center plaza).
I was attacked by a rotting forgotten beast recently and it was almost like losing the game (30 soldiers went rot and tantrum spiral on their friends), I was able to reload and the beast changed ... my luck. But I would like to kill a beast like that and survive.

On the other side, I don't want to start again to make the "perfect fortress" because this is probably an impossible task ... maybe I should just make another one near the magma lake, and take water there. Move water down should be easyer than take lava up .....

sorry if I went [OT] in my own thread, I'm trying to understand this game.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 11:03:54 am by Nokao »
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Starver

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 12:17:46 pm »

By cavern days, you mean that when someone discover a cavern should transfer there ?
Sorry, no.  Meant "From the days before DF had (today's) 3 open caverns and magma sea and <whatever> beneath that" as default.  You might have had other voids in the rock (and underground rivers and pits and things), but not like the current set. You could dig down to the 'bottom' of the rock ('spires' excepted) and just hit undiggable-into 'normal' rock.  A bit like you can can only build so far up into the sky.

Quote
sorry if I went [OT] in my own thread, I'm trying to understand this game.
  That's fair enough I shall just have to keeeell yooou!!! and please continue how you wish. ;)
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vjek

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2012, 12:58:18 pm »

By cavern days, you mean that when someone discover a cavern should transfer there ?

Now I'm deciding how to go on ... I have a fortress with 350 dwarves, economy is ok and also food seems good.
But I never produced weapons and clothes (just used the market for that) and I want to start.

So I mined down and found 2 different magma sources, should I make another fortress near there or not ?

I also have the idea to start again from zero, because this game is very complete and hard, when you find a way to solve a problem, another one comes out.

Like for example diseases, I readed NOW on the wiki that clean the dwarves with water was a good idea, and my actual fortress don't have anymore the possibility to make "waterfalls" on the entrance/exits for healt purposes (I just planned a waterfall in the center plaza).
I was attacked by a rotting forgotten beast recently and it was almost like losing the game (30 soldiers went rot and tantrum spiral on their friends), I was able to reload and the beast changed ... my luck. But I would like to kill a beast like that and survive.

On the other side, I don't want to start again to make the "perfect fortress" because this is probably an impossible task ... maybe I should just make another one near the magma lake, and take water there. Move water down should be easyer than take lava up .....

sorry if I went [OT] in my own thread, I'm trying to understand this game.

With respect to transporting to/from lava/water:

While you're certainly free to do as you wish, in my voyage of discovery through DF, I found that finding the perfect embark was an extraordinary waste of my time.
What I mean by that is, you can spend dozens of hours trying to generate worlds with the perfect conditions, or you can just use dfhack and make them yourself.
If using dfhack doesn't appeal to you, no harm, no foul, feel free to ignore this post. 
I'm just pointing it out because it solves pretty much all but one of the issues you're dealing with, immediately.  For me, this allowed me to focus on what I enjoyed, rather than what was an impediment to my own goals.

As an example.

Many starting forts have a problem with dwarves running into thirst.  A wide variety of very interesting embarks do not have flowing water on them, so it can be quite time consuming to prevent your dwarves from dying of thirst.

Ok, fair enough, that can be seen as a challenge to overcome, and satisfying when done.  True!  However, if your goal for your fort is a project, mega-project, or other type of not-dying-of-thirst scenario, embarking with flowing water on the map can turn into nothing but a performance loss on your FPS that you'd rather avoid.  My personal solution?  One command in dfhack, and I have provided water for all my dwarves.  Done.  Move on to next goal.

I have already, in the past, gone through all the pain of providing fresh water.  This is just much much faster and more convenient, having done it before.  I have built dozens of forts over the past year, and learn more every time, so don't hesitate if restarting will help you solve a problem next time.

Similarly, many players embark on a volcano simply to get magma for magma forges and magma smelters/furnaces.  Two commands in dfhack solves this on any embark that CAN have magma-powered buildings, and saves you the FPS loss.

Also, the issue of caverns;  another potential FPS loss, and entirely unnecessary to most of my projects.  Now? No caverns.  Trees?  Surface only.  Crops?  Surface-crops only, grown underground.

It's true, you can lose interest if you don't set your goals lofty enough.  I'm just pointing out that if, in your frustration, you're ready to give up, don't!  There are tools available to reach your goals, in particular if you're looking to work towards a mega project.  By all means, do it the "hard way" at least once, but after that, the option is available to ditch the noble suffering. :)

vanatteveldt

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 02:50:44 pm »

I personally really like starting over, not so much to find the perfect embark, but just because it's fun to plan a fortress from scratch...
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greycat

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 03:35:36 pm »

Like for example diseases, I readed NOW on the wiki that clean the dwarves with water was a good idea, and my actual fortress don't have anymore the possibility to make "waterfalls" on the entrance/exits for healt purposes (I just planned a waterfall in the center plaza).

If the only goal is cleanliness (rather than happy thoughts), a waterfall isn't the best approach anyway.  A simple channel with 2/7 or 3/7 water in it, all the way across the hallway so that dwarves must walk through it, is far superior.  These are sometimes called "dwarfwashes" or "dwarven bathtubs".
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Nokao

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Re: question about power & machines ?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2012, 03:39:56 pm »

@vjek: thank you for the detailed informations.

I will look this forum for the "how to"s because the wiki is more a "manual" than a guide on how to do things and strategy.

However I think I already did great, considering this is my first fortress and the others I just tryed the game, and I played only a week !

I will give a look to this dfhack you suggest, but I think I can manage to make it the random way.

Actually I'm playing a fortress with 412 dwarves, and they seem all able to eat, I have a large animal variety and number, and the fortress is well organized with separate floors for different activities and a waterfall in the last, living, quarters.
The map isn't really friendly, the river become ice in the winter, goblins keep attacking me, and I have sometimes vampire problems. I never saw the crop fields upside that youre talking about, and I started with 10x10 map because I was to greedy (and now my game is very slow and laggy).

But still, I am alive, with 3x10 soldiers squads well prepared and armed, and I'm defending well in sieges. So I thing I have done well, but I still have some problems with some contagious beasts (no dwarf cleaning system) and various flaws (like.. I have very few trees, so I never forged  metal weapons/armors).
I managed to do this reading so much FAQs and wiki, so I'll just go on with this map resolving the last problems (machinery, magma, ecc) and next I'll start again with another world.

@graycat: yes I readed about this, but how to fill a bathtub with water the first time ? and do I have to change water often ?
Also, the real problem is that the architecture of my fortress (wich I designed on paper before doing it) doesn't support this.
Another mistake I did was to dig the caverns FROM the fortress, causing defence / security issues.
Now if my warriors come back from caverns after killing a poisonous / contagious forgotten beast, they'll make sick also all the civilians, so next game I'll dig a "closed fortress" by itself and make the "dungeon/adventure/mining" channel elsewere. With baththubs in the beginning/end.
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