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[Neonivek]

New update on how much they hate linear stories and how much this is not going to force you down any paths!  Also, on comments, joke about adding alcohol for current drunkish animations was taken as a great idea. lol i guess?

Yeah but their talk about "Linear stories" has entered "We will be different" territory. A very ospicious thing to see as it tends to be almost a beacon of danger.

[Squanto]

Yeah but their talk about "Linear stories" has entered "We will be different" territory. A very ospicious thing to see as it tends to be almost a beacon of danger.

It read more to me like they had some grand scheme of things that you could either watch play out or try to influence how you wished.  Pieced along with the facts that there are apprently vastly differing social structures between different species instead of saying you kill arbitrarily ranked hostiles makes it seem like you may even be able to betray mankind as a whole if you so chose to, which would be awesome if it was true.  Of course, that may be pushing it, but normally absurd stuff like killing major characters seems in-line with stuff they expect you to at least try (like killing the jarls/greybeards in skyrim would never be allowed by Bethesda because of how screwy the story could get).

[Virtz]

Claiming that they aren't is like saying that micromanagement isn't part of Dwarf Fortress' gameplay

Dwarf Fortress isn't "good" because it features micromanagement.

Likewise the "Proccedural animations" do not make this game good either and what happens a lot of the time is people will make excuses for gameplay because of these features.

All I am saying is that it is important to remain diligent and remember that under the "Procedural animations" there should be even greater gameplay to back it up.

I'd disagree there. I'd rather a game try something drastically new and fail to be a "good" game than just play it safe and end up with something "good" among a legion of similar games. Like I'd rather get the next Die by the Sword than the next Diablo killer or whatever.

And to me Dwarf Fortress is great because of how it simulates things instead of leaving them to the usual gamey abstractions (which translates to lots of micromanagement). Like there's Towns and Gnomoria, which provide better graphics and interface, but I'd take DF over them any day.

[ScriptWolf]

i really like the look of it and i have pledged, but there's a few things I'm wondering about.

I hope that magic will have its own physics and you can do some really cool stuff with it and science!

The fighting right now seems really off balance and just wrong, like they are drunk. I mean with two heavy swords in your hand maybe if they were heavy enough would throw you that much off balance. But i face palmed when it showed the video of the guy with one sword they really need to tighten that up Alot!

[scriver]

I don't know. When I first saw the video I thought it looked great and was very enthusiastic. Since then I've been discussing it with people and well, pretty much changed my mind. This isn't really anything. They're basically trying to sell an engine to us, not a game. An engine which in itself contains next to nothing new (yet for some reason the guy was determined to write everything himself when he could have bought it). He talks about procedural lighting how all the models are physic'd in the same shape as they look, but dude, come on, every modern engine has procedural lighting and there's a reason other devs doesn't use "visually correct" physics-boxes and it isn't that they aren't capable of it; it's to make the performance better. The exception is the "procedural animations" which I haven't seen much like in other games before, but let's face it - as is, these animations look like shit. At best, they're comical. I'm not going to invest in an engine where the one thing they have brought to the table has been so underdeveloped. It doesn't speak well for the dev at all.

Then there is the game itself. Based on what little they want to tell us about it, nothing new there as well. Your standard action RPG without any non-combat skills, which no doubt means it's going to be really light on the RPG, and the most generic, boring story ever told. From the description, it seems the guy just read the Hero's Journey and took it as a step-by-step guide. Nothing interesting there at all. Oh, and there's talk about this great, revolutionary AI they have, but he doesn't show anything of it in the video; which is weird seeming as showing off the tech is all the video does (there's absolutely no sign of any RPG mechanics in the demo either, for that matter), and that leaves me wondering if either not that good or not yet implemented at all.

So what's left? Well, the backgrounds and graphics still look awesomely pretty. That's something, I guess.

[Neonivek]

(which translates to lots of micromanagement).

You are mixing up the order.

This game would essentially start at Micromanagement and then get to gameplay.

Dwarf Fortress started with gameplay and ended up with micromanagement. Dwarf Fortress did not seek out micromanagement, in there is a strong push to include LESS micromanagement. Micromanagement is something that aids the gameplay like a tool.

You need to stop confusing the elements that make up gameplay with gameplay itself. There is taking a risk on a game that seems amazing but may not be... and then there is jumping ontop of a game because it features an element.

Heck one thing I liked about this game is how "Physics attacks" are in a somewhat legitimate form. Playing Freedom Force I know how sometimes the most powerful knockbacks are worth squat (well damage wise... in freedom force even pure knockback attacks are VERY valuable)

This isn't really anything

It is kinda worse then "nothing" they are already saying "Our game will be better" which tends to translate to "we don't know why other games limit these aspects of storytelling.". So it means we automatically have something to go against the storytelling component before the game is even done.

Mind you there are ways to do "We can do better" without putting up those warning lights.

as is, these animations look like shit

Honestly one issue I had is that is that while cool a lot of the fights seemed really clunky. Where fighting a giant weilding a flail should be epic using every skill your character has... It was actually quite silly. Judging by what they said it seems like this is actually an issue that won't be fixed (since that isn't what the game is about).

[Facekillz058]

I think they'll have the animations wrapped up by the time the game is going.
I certainly like the idea of rolling a Drunken Master.
So, how does damage work? That guy was tanking ogre hits like a boss, until he got hit a few good times.

[Scelly9]

I like that knockdown system, a lot. The animation's arent too bad, if you're supposed to be a drunken peasent who's never picked up a sword in his life, otherwise they need a little work.
It looks ridiculously good, and if they realese the building tools along with the game, I will be very happy.

[miauw62]

I like that knockdown system, a lot. The animation's arent too bad, if you're supposed to be a drunken peasent who's never picked up a sword in his life, otherwise they need a little work.
It looks ridiculously good, and if they realese the building tools along with the game, I will be very happy.

As it looks now, i think they will.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

The animation's arent too bad, if you're supposed to be a drunken peasent who's never picked up a sword in his life, otherwise they need a little work.

... Why don't they just do that? Make the game about a drunken, shitty fighter who ends up having to save the world. Then they don't even have to make the animations not look like shit, because, well, it'd be hilarious. Add motion blur and we're almost there to the best drunken Sword-and-Sorcery simulator ever.

[Neonivek]

The animation's arent too bad, if you're supposed to be a drunken peasent who's never picked up a sword in his life, otherwise they need a little work.

... Why don't they just do that? Make the game about a drunken, shitty fighter who ends up having to save the world. Then they don't even have to make the animations not look like shit, because, well, it'd be hilarious. Add motion blur and we're almost there to the best drunken Sword-and-Sorcery simulator ever.

I'd think the joke would get old really fast.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I'd think the joke would get old really fast.

You're negative about everything sir, it'd be awesome. The same way Sumotori [or whatever it is, the game with two guys sumo-ing with procedural animations and physics] is fucking hilarious nonstop.

[Neonivek]

I'd think the joke would get old really fast.

You're negative about everything sir, it'd be awesome. The same way Sumotori [or whatever it is, the game with two guys sumo-ing with procedural animations and physics] is fucking hilarious nonstop.

I never said it wouldn't be hillarious. But don't you think after 10 hours it would sort of wear out its welcome?

Or would the fact that you just continuously become more epic and get more epic equipment and take down more epic enemies... and are still a flailing drunkard would somehow keep it fresh?

[GlyphGryph]

And honestly, the only thing wrong with the procedural animations is over-swinging pretty much - if they shorten up the backswings. have a quicker "revert to at the ready" thing, and throw in a couple thrusts. I don't think it will look bad. Which I'm sure they will. This could just be the "zero skill in weapons" fighting style.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Or would the fact that you just continuously become more epic and get more epic equipment and take down more epic enemies... and are still a flailing drunkard would somehow keep it fresh?

I think mixing it with that mentality with the type of ridiculous over-the-topness in a game like Brutal Legend [as a good example of a game that doesn't take itself serious yet was rad as hell], and it'll be a blast the entire damn time. Mix in between-event cutscenes where he's getting sloshed in random pubs in areas associated and I'll buy it in a heartbeat.