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Author Topic: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations  (Read 27421 times)

GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2015, 01:19:07 pm »

What did you use to record it? Fraps is the only program I've found that works correctly, and it's limited to 30s segments.
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sebcool

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2015, 01:28:38 pm »

I'm using OBS. It's free and it doesn't drain your fps (or kill your SSD).

I'll probably upload another video showcasing the different physiques and how they fight (I promise it will be better quality. . . Half of it).
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2015, 02:24:32 pm »

Thank ya, OBS looks like a GREAT choice! Getting the hang of the GUI now, file size is good & everything. Time to tweak the settings..
In the meantime, I'm trying out a diminutive bottom-left lady. Muscle might increase swing speed while fat decreases it, (but increases mass), because her swings seem about the same speed as hulk-bro.
Or physique doesn't affect swing speed...

-e
Wow, being a shorty REALLY helps get around guards. You just chop their knees off 24/7.
If they're tall, that is.
-
Tried jacking up the muscle on the dwarf lady, didn't notice too much of a difference. Might be in our heads.
-
Alright, just set it to a tall, weak, fat old lady, no discernible difference in swing speed.
On the flip side, I'm pretty sure height increases your stride & therefore overall movement speed, and mass may or may not effect impact/physics.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 03:11:11 pm by GrizzlyAdamz »
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sebcool

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2015, 03:42:52 pm »

Yeah, next after this video, I'm gonna try out dwarfs. I have a feeling it's gonna be hilarious.

Also, from what I've tested, physique makes a big difference in how weapons handle. Wiry, top left characters swing really fast and really hard, which makes them really scary with moderate sized weapons like longswords and poleaxes (in my run with the longsword, I actually cut it short because I was going too far) , but they don't have the grace and agility to use light weapons well, nor the weight and balance to handle the heavy ones.

Funnily enough, it isn't actually strength that's the deciding factor, it seems. For the heavier weapons, it is far more important to be heavy, in order to handle the sheer momentum of the weapon, and even fat, lower right characters used the maul pretty well, but the lighter characters suffered, no matter how strong they were. For lighter weapons, it was far more important to be quick and nimble, to better take advantage of the speed of the weapon. Being strong was often a detriment, firstly because it was overkill and secondly because it hampered ones speed. I had a way easier time landing good, precise hits and maneuvering with the lighter characters (lower left and bottom).

The heavy weapons thing makes sense, physics wise, Newton's 3rd law and all that. When you push something, it pushes you back, and the faster and harder you push, the harder you're pushed back. Wiry characters can put out just as much force as the burly ones, but they are way less capable of handling the weight of the weapon, leaving them at a disadvantage. Compare that to the fat guy, who can't swing as hard but has way more mass to swing around, and therefore use the hammer better.

Basically, the speed of the weapon doesn't always depend on strength. Muscle dictates how much force you can apply into something at once, but mass dictates how much you can move. If you have little muscle, it only means it takes longer to speed the weapon up, but once you get it moving, it's still pretty strong, if you can get it moving. Also, there are limits to how fast you can move. For example, that wiry guy can't swing an arming sword much harder than a lean guy, simply because it's so light.

It's the same idea as throwing pebbles and rocks. Theoretically, one should be able to throw a pebble farther, because it's lighter, but the problem is that your arm isn't light, and it can only move so fast. You can barely throw the pebble across the street, but you throw the rock right through your neighbor's window, because you can apply more force to the rock and still throw it at the same speed as the pebble.

Of course, most of this might be dead wrong. I might be remembering things incorrectly, and I only tested a few weapons. We'll see with the video.

Anyway, end of senseless rant. Game is awesome. I'm off to bed.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2015, 09:10:08 pm »

Mm, the need for a torch in the main dungeon-crawling mode really puts a damper on your weapon options.

-e
Mk, fourth or fifth run, lucked out and found a gambeson early on. Still trying to murder everything in my path & having moderate success- best weapon for dispatching undead so far is the 2h iron bar, a couple overheads and they drop without a fuss.
Just have to lure them back to a lightsource first.

-e
Well, I'm a little more than halfway dead, I've cleared out all of the dungeon I can reach, have found a simple iron key, and don't know where to go now.
Can you use the key? It doesn't seem to interact with the locked doors...

-
Aand I got stuck on the environment at a bad time.
I think I'll look into save-scumming.
At least I know where everything is now...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 12:11:08 am by GrizzlyAdamz »
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sebcool

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #155 on: May 05, 2015, 01:13:51 am »

You double-click to use the key. Also, you can drop your torch on the ground to create a light source, in case you get stuck in a dark hallway with an angry zombie.
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Virtz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #156 on: May 05, 2015, 04:46:56 am »

Spoiler: Key (click to show/hide)


In unrelated news, apparently there's a third-party program floating around to help with saving. In case you get frustrated with having to redo the beginning level, there's always that. Not sure where to find it, tho.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #157 on: May 05, 2015, 05:59:32 pm »

Hm, where'd ya hear about it?

Aaand I'm stuck again. I've explored the jail, the kennel, and the medical ward in addition to all the areas previous.
Got the prison key, got the health pot, a couple bits of loot, & I don't see where I should be going.
Locked door over by the first key is still locked, neither key works on it.

Missed a door in the prison.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 07:30:22 pm by GrizzlyAdamz »
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SalmonGod

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #158 on: May 06, 2015, 12:12:34 am »

Ugh.... I just had by far my best run yet.  Survived at least 30 minutes of game and saw lots of stuff I hadn't seen before.

And then I died at full health to a zombie with a two-handed sword.

This is an infuriating recipe for permanently losing interesting in what really is a good game.  I don't mind failure.  But I don't have hours upon hours of free time to re-do half an hour of game every time I make a mistake.  Where is that save game utility.  I fucking need it.  I've beaten the arena several times with various equipment sets.  But until this most recent attempt, I've barely gone past that first locked door in story mode.  This is ridiculous.

I'm getting pissed off reading the Steam forums trying to find this utility.  There are legions of people flaming everyone who asks for a save feature.  The solution repeatedly offered is "play more carefully and spend a couple hours learning in the arena first".... yeah, thanks.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 12:20:20 am by SalmonGod »
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sebcool

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #159 on: May 06, 2015, 06:37:32 am »

Well, that's dungeon crawlers for you :P

I honestly don't mind how punishing it is, it's like a roguelike that way. It makes the game pretty damn scary, especially if you try and avoid engaging zombies (which you should). it only takes a few good hits to take you down, which gives you a really good incentive to not get hit.

There is a pretty big difference between fighting the arena and fighting in the game. In the arena you get armour fairly quickly, it's 1v1, the enemies are cautious, and you have proper weapons. In the main game, you have no armour, no real weapons, and you're facing a ton of suicidal zombies. My best advice is to try and fight the arena (i know, broken record), no armour, one handed sword. You're gonna be learning not to get hit really quickly.

Other than that, play the main game, die repeatedly, learn. Dark Souls style.

By the way, I finally got that video done. 30 minutes of glorious battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shp3ZU3C3FY
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scriver

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #160 on: May 06, 2015, 08:10:09 am »

I'm fairly certain Dark Souls has saves and/or check points. That's sort of the main thing of the game, isn't it? Having very hard enemies that you can try beating over and over again without having to start over from the beginning. Having difficult enemies/challenges yet forcing the player to play through the game over and over again is a surefire way of making him to lose interest. Really, even most old nes games during the "nintendo hard" era had savegames in the form of area codes and the like.
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Virtz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #161 on: May 06, 2015, 08:18:47 am »

I'm getting pissed off reading the Steam forums trying to find this utility.  There are legions of people flaming everyone who asks for a save feature.  The solution repeatedly offered is "play more carefully and spend a couple hours learning in the arena first".... yeah, thanks.
Found it. Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzvytgyyahe2ylm/exanima_save.exe?dl=0
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sebcool

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #162 on: May 06, 2015, 10:36:26 am »

I'm fairly certain Dark Souls has saves and/or check points. That's sort of the main thing of the game, isn't it? Having very hard enemies that you can try beating over and over again without having to start over from the beginning. Having difficult enemies/challenges yet forcing the player to play through the game over and over again is a surefire way of making him to lose interest. Really, even most old nes games during the "nintendo hard" era had savegames in the form of area codes and the like.

On the other hand, the game is way shorter than Dark Souls, and those bonfires were pretty far apart (mind you, you kept your equipment in Dark Souls). There is a video up of a guy who ran through the entire game in 5 minutes. From what I've read from people who finished it, it's 2-3 hours, if you don't just run through it.

Yeah, it sucks to die, but that's the game for you. You play, you die, then you start over and play better, until you beat the game. If there was a save function now, with how limited the game currently is, the game would wear awfully thin, really quickly. You could literally win the game by getting a metal bar and holding the mouse button down, if that was the case. Death would lose all meaning. To take the example of Dark Souls again, you couldn't quicksave in that game (not that I recall), you just had your bonfires. If you died, it was back to the bonfire and an hour getting your souls back, and if you died again, you lost those souls. If you suddenly got the ability to quicksave, the game would be far less challenging and infinitely more boring, because there would be no incentive to improve, no reason to learn the bloody game.

I know that you don't have to save constantly, I'm just saying that that's how the game would be like if you did. Having the option to quicksave would be nice, I would probably use it, because I'm a horrible human being, but I understand why they don't add it. In the end, it's their project, and they know best what to do with it. It's our choice to support their decisions with our money. If you thought it was something else, I really don't know what to say. It is pretty clear what it is if you dig just a little, and it's hardly their fault if someone fails to do the research. (Using 'you' in the general sense. I'm not here to make assumptions or be patronising, just making an argument (I've been reading the steam forums. Never again.)).

At the end of the day, it's all just how the game is. They said it would be punishing, it was punishing. Would it be nice to have the option of saving? Yes. Is the game good without? In my opinion, yes. Currently, the game isn't much different from most roguelikes, except it isn't that random, apart from the location of the enemies. The non-randomness is both good and bad: Bad because it's repetitive, and good because you get to learn the map. You learn what the best routes are, where the good loot is, which places are dead ends, etc.

A game like that is not for everyone, and I am not much of a fan of dungeon-crawling myself, but I can see the appeal, they haven't lied about how the game would be, and the combat system is really, really fun. I got exactly what I wanted from this game, and that was an awesome combat system that you actually need to learn, with a smart(ish) AI that gives you a challenge, and lots of replay value. All that is in the arena, I couldn't care less about the dungeon, and quite a few people seem to be enjoying both.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #163 on: May 06, 2015, 11:54:51 am »

I'm getting pissed off reading the Steam forums trying to find this utility.  There are legions of people flaming everyone who asks for a save feature.  The solution repeatedly offered is "play more carefully and spend a couple hours learning in the arena first".... yeah, thanks.
Found it. Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzvytgyyahe2ylm/exanima_save.exe?dl=0

Where did you find it?
Avast threw up a 'Filerepmetagen' detection and locked it away on execute, but it seems that detection is based on 'file reputation', ie the number of users that have encountered it and the age of the file.
It seems very prone to false positives.

In the meantime I've been making a backup of everything in /user/appdata/roaming/exanima & just restoring that on death.


About saving-
I'm not a fan of the 'no save function' idea. Seems like I'm being told what to do with my game, and in the end it doesn't prevent me from doing what I want, it just makes it more of a PITA.
Using DS as an example, when I tried it the first time I didn't get very far. I beat the gargoyles, explored a little bit, and finally worked my way down to Quelagg. But then I just stopped.
I fucking hated losing my souls, never went human for fear of getting rekt, and I just got too stressed out about what seemed at the time would be a difficult boss, (that giant spider mound with the parasite guys after wading through the poison & dung giants at the bottom of fucking BLIGHT TOWN, jesus).

But you know what I did about half a year later?
I came back, and I played with cheat engine.
I used it to recover a rough estimate of my souls & humanity whenever I died twice, or immune my way through a retreaded area to save time.
And I had FUN.
I didn't stress out about losing my shit, I played as a human & constantly PVP'd (feeding the community souls, humanity, and all-important participation), and ultimately I put in 200 hours beating the bosses and exploring the game.
And I got better at the game, since trying things solo & experimenting were much, much smaller risks.

For me, their incentive system was nothing but a roadblock.
And I'm a fan of giving the player more options.
Completely omitting the ability to save in order to increase stress on the player will increase enjoyment for some players, but it will completely alienate others.
Non-optional ironman is a bad idea.
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Virtz

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Re: Sui Generis - kickstarter Action RPG with procedural animations
« Reply #164 on: May 06, 2015, 12:02:31 pm »

I'm getting pissed off reading the Steam forums trying to find this utility.  There are legions of people flaming everyone who asks for a save feature.  The solution repeatedly offered is "play more carefully and spend a couple hours learning in the arena first".... yeah, thanks.
Found it. Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzvytgyyahe2ylm/exanima_save.exe?dl=0

Where did you find it?
Avast threw up a 'Filerepmetagen' detection and locked it away on execute, but it seems that detection is based on 'file reputation', ie the number of users that have encountered it and the age of the file.
It seems very prone to false positives.

In the meantime I've been making a backup of everything in /user/appdata/roaming/exanima & just restoring that on death.
Found it on the Steam forums in a topic about saving. No idea if it's actually legit, tho.
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