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[doctoxic]

Hi

I have a nearby surface river and i want to create a well about 2 or 3 levels underground.

My thoughts so far.............
Lets say river is on level 0
I want my well on level 2 (i.e. 2 levels below ground)
So my reservoir needs to be on level 3, 4 and 5 (i.e. i want a 3 level deep hole about 6x6 squares)  (should it be bigger?)

I'm going to start from the bottom and work up
Tunnel to level 5 and dig a 6x6 room (doesn't need to be directly below river)

PROBLEM: How do you create this hole over 3 levels?
I assume in my level 5 room i 'Upward ramps' on all 36 tiles?
BUT doesn't that mean on level 4 there is 'nothing' i.e. a hole and if so how do i extend the hole up to level 3
OR do i start at level 3 and 'Channel' down - as i type this it sounds like a more sensible option, but won't i just be stuck in a big hole and unable to get out?
Really need some help with this bit

OK - lets assume i now have a 6x6 hole over 3 levels (all of which are below the river).

So next i dig a tunnel to level 1 (i.e. just below the river)
I connect this tunnel to the top of the hole at level 3 using "stairs" to go down so the water can flow down them (or should i use Channel?)
Then move back under the river and build an "upward ramp" to break into the river so the water flows into the reservoir

CONCERNS
I need to make sure i don't flood my fortress and/or drown my dwarfs

QUESTION : How deep a water can dwarfs move through safely?

Now i know i can build floodgates to keep the water confined which is fine but if i do this isn't the dwarf who digs into the river going to drown?  How do i get him to safety without the river flowing into my fortress?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks

doc

[pisskop]

? You dig it and use an upramp in the corner of the cistern.  I suppose youd also use a diagnol and a floodgate to control flow/pressure.

ptw, in any case.

Obviously you need to not flood your fort so if the river freezes or you can set up your floodgate first...

[TKGP]

First, I would say that having a reservoir/cistern isn't really necessary for a simple well. If it's connected to a river it's always going to be full anyways, and even if the river freezes occasionally the water left in the "pipe" is usually more than enough to last you until it thaws.
But if you do want to dig out a multi-level pit, channeling from the top is the way to go. Just dig out a staircase when you get to the bottom and stick a door or wall in it to block flow. Like this (side view):

Code: [Select]

    o   >█
████ ███X█
~~~~~~~█X█
██~~~~~█X█
██~~~~~█<█
██████████Make sure you channel one layer at a time to avoid cave-in hazards.

To ensure the water doesn't shoot out of your well due to pressure, put a diagonal bend before the reservoir. Liquid traveling through a diagonal loses pressure. Like this (top view):

Code: [Select]

█████████
██~██~~~█
~~█~~~~~█
█████~~~█
█████████
And lastly to puncture the riverbed I typically just carve a staircase straight up under it, then dig a down stair in the river floor. The miner should just swim up and climb out on the riverbank. If you really want to be careful about it you can approach the river from the side, then go up to the surface and channel out the last tile.

[doctoxic]

thanks all - sorry i'm being a bit slow here but having difficulty following some of your comments


TKGP in your first diagram i assume...
o = well - but whats the space below it- a channel?
> whats this represent?
x = stairs
x = stairs
< = a door to the stairs??

"First, I would say that having a reservoir/cistern isn't really necessary for a simple well. If it's connected to a river it's always going to be full anyways" Do you mean  you just dig a well directly into an underground river from the side?

Also do doors block flow? I thought it had to be a floodgate?


pisskop
you mean you just build upramps on top of each other?


once again sorry i am having trouble visualising your suggestions - thanks for your patience

doc

[Jellycat12]

Door block water.

[TKGP]

TKGP in your first diagram i assume...
o = well - but whats the space below it- a channel?
> whats this represent?
x = stairs
x = stairs
< = a door to the stairs??

A channel, yes. The specifics aren't important but as long as the well has a clear path downwards to water it will work (even dozens of tiles down). The > is a down stair and the < is an up stair. You could just use up/down stairs there, doesn't really matter. The tile to the left of the up stair could be a constructed wall, door, floodgate, or whatever you want.

Do you mean  you just dig a well directly into an underground river from the side?

I mean that the few tiles of plumbing (the shaft connecting the river to the cistern) will easily hold enough water for most purposes, even if the flow is temporarily cut off.

Also do doors block flow? I thought it had to be a floodgate?

They do as long as they're closed. If some hapless animal steps into it it will open and spill water, so if you do build a door make sure you lock it afterwards.

once again sorry i am having trouble visualising your suggestions - thanks for your patience

No worries, happy to help out.
You can find some additional information on the wiki page.

[Dremire]

Might be safer to take water from the river with dwarf powered pump instead of tapping. If something goes wrong, you can always turn it off.

[pisskop]

I meant 'stairs'.  for every step up an upramp.  imagine an even slope descending into the water so one could swim up to it and walk out.

dwarf pump is safe too, just be sure no to do like I did and let spillover drown a dwarf.

[doctoxic]

First, I would say that having a reservoir/cistern isn't really necessary for a simple well. If it's connected to a river it's always going to be full anyways, and even if the river freezes occasionally the water left in the "pipe" is usually more than enough to last you until it thaws.

So how do you do this safely - it seems much simpler than what i was talking about above.


I'm guessing:-

I have a river on surface (level 0) and one level below (level 1)

lets say i want a well on level 2

i assume i need the water on level 3

so how exactly do i get a flowing offshoot of the river to level 3???

once i have that think i then channel down from level 2 and build a well on top of the channel?? (is channeling down into the river going to flood the caves?)

any advice very welcome

many thanks

[Merendel]

you might want to read up on the wiki about water preasure.  in a nutshell you want to dig 1 tile wide diagonal for the water to pass through.  If you do this the water flowing in will fill up that level but not any level higher than it.  If you dont use the diagonal the water will try to keep filling up to the level it started on.

dig your cistern. on the top level of the cistern (last one you want filled with water) dig a diagonal passage into a tunnle leading under the river.  Dig up/down stairs up into the river and hope the miner can swim.  A slightly safer option is to dig the shaft up next to the river and channle out the riverbank afterwards to start the water flow.   If you want the option to shutoff the flow for whatever reason install a door/bridge/floodgate and link it to a lever before you open the path to the river.

[doctoxic]

thanks for that

i'd had a go but forgot the kinks - however i have doors in the corridor to the well so if it blows i shouldn't get flooded out.

[WanderingKid]

My usual method goes something like this:

Channel the hole in the floor where the well is going to go.  Hope I get a miner who's eaten/drank recently.

Start channeling the area around the hole to desired depth, but leave the first ramp you created so your miners and whatnot can still get out.  Mine out the drainage tunnel (if necessary, I've had a few mishaps).  What's a drainage tunnel?  Let's say you build your cistern like so when you're done:

_____o______
===     ===X
      \__/

The left side is your mined 'pipe' bringing the water in (we'll get to that in a second).  The right side is the outflow.  You can drain off the edge of the map.  What I'll typically do is run a pipe to the map edge, smooth that wall, then engrave a Fortification into it.  That allows the water to leave the map with no risk of flooding the halls.  I typically do this because my cistern is part of my waterfall system and the waterfall absolutely has to have an outflow, so I just build it entirely in one shot.  The alternative is the diagonal water pressure removal that's listed above, but I find safe better than sorry.  It also keeps water from getting stagnant.

So, back to the cistern.  You've got your ramp in, you've dug a bit of hole around it deeper.  Now, you need to drive the pipe over towards the river.  That's a simple mining command, stop 3 squares short of the river.  At the end, dig a stairway up, then U/D stairs till you're at the bed of the river.  Dig 2 squares towards the river.  There should be a single square of dirt between you and the floodwaters.  Have your guys build a fortification in the last square, then install a floodgate in the second to last square (make sure the fortification finishes before the floodgate installs).  Finally, install a lever somewhere ABOVE flood level (aka: ground level) and hook it up to the floodgate, just in case everything goes to hell in a handbasket.  Channel out the square between the river and the fortification.

Your water system is good to go.  Flip lever, see what happens. 

If everything is going according to plan, flip the floodgate back into place, let it drain a bit, and then go remove the access ramps and create an access stairway with another floodgate out of the bottom.  Retest.  Should be good to go at that point.

Of course, if you want to be dwarfy about it, just set up a chain of screw pumps to the main stairway and use the bottom of it as your well. 

[doctoxic]

My usual method goes something like this:

Channel the hole in the floor where the well is going to go.  Hope I get a miner who's eaten/drank recently.

Start channeling the area around the hole to desired depth, but leave the first ramp you created so your miners and whatnot can still get out.  Mine out the drainage tunnel (if necessary, I've had a few mishaps).  What's a drainage tunnel?  Let's say you build your cistern like so when you're done:

_____o______
===     ===X
      \__/

The left side is your mined 'pipe' bringing the water in (we'll get to that in a second).  The right side is the outflow.  You can drain off the edge of the map.  What I'll typically do is run a pipe to the map edge, smooth that wall, then engrave a Fortification into it.  That allows the water to leave the map with no risk of flooding the halls.  I typically do this because my cistern is part of my waterfall system and the waterfall absolutely has to have an outflow, so I just build it entirely in one shot.  The alternative is the diagonal water pressure removal that's listed above, but I find safe better than sorry.  It also keeps water from getting stagnant.

So, back to the cistern.  You've got your ramp in, you've dug a bit of hole around it deeper.  Now, you need to drive the pipe over towards the river.  That's a simple mining command, stop 3 squares short of the river.  At the end, dig a stairway up, then U/D stairs till you're at the bed of the river.  Dig 2 squares towards the river.  There should be a single square of dirt between you and the floodwaters.  Have your guys build a fortification in the last square, then install a floodgate in the second to last square (make sure the fortification finishes before the floodgate installs).  Finally, install a lever somewhere ABOVE flood level (aka: ground level) and hook it up to the floodgate, just in case everything goes to hell in a handbasket.  Channel out the square between the river and the fortification.

Your water system is good to go.  Flip lever, see what happens. 

If everything is going according to plan, flip the floodgate back into place, let it drain a bit, and then go remove the access ramps and create an access stairway with another floodgate out of the bottom.  Retest.  Should be good to go at that point.

Of course, if you want to be dwarfy about it, just set up a chain of screw pumps to the main stairway and use the bottom of it as your well. 

do you have a degree in engineering? 

thanks for all the info - a lot to take in
i'll give it a go on next game, or even load up an old save and experiment (which would be safer)

cheers