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[knutor]

4. What kind of a host would you be...

Loose lips sink ships. 

You already share trap designs with humans.

I share nothing willingly. 

GreatWyrmGold, are you saying these blips observed other blips, left my map, and remembered it, or other blips which they thought was a blip, or wasn't a blip, and recorded and remembered that?  This is an AI vs AI mechanic at work, we are to presume, that's something you and I dunno anything about or aren't supposed to know anything about. 

Game's still in development, sure okay.  Not a patch.. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck. 

I fail to witness anything remotely like this happening, trap design sharing, during or after a caravan visit.  Be nice to see a video of this 'knowledge sharing interaction' if indeed it exists, like you say GreatWyrmGold.  It isn't like we don't see interactions for other occurrences, ya know what I mean.  Well less see, and more read, by way of the scrolling spam.  I just never saw it.  Most of the time, my mechanics appear to be too gosh darn busy working, to produce a dialog with an Elf. 

GreatWyrmGold, the argument I'm hearing from you in favor for the cart wheel bug prevailing as a feature, as I see it is this:  telling traders not to step there. 

Smart traps are not to exist?  'Trap' is a catagory, its not just the one that fits my argument the best, in this case a pressure plate.  It could be another type.  A weapon type, lets say, that could fire perfectly safely into the side of a wooden wagon, but devastate the eyeball of an enemy. 

Tell me when this happens?  I build these, and never once share anything to any visitor.  And from what I can tell, my mechanics don't either.  No exerted effort to share, path on over to the Elf and Human Civilizations to share occurs, either.  I don't see them making observations, traveling about my fortress with a clipboard, taking notes.. another words.  *scratch head*

What did you think of an activity zone, for trading, instead of a Depot, where other Civilizations trade with each other, and NOT us?  That we could put outside our fortress.  Sort of like medieval castles did, with trade fairs.  A foolish king, allows traders into his treasure room, unhindered.  That's the kind of kings DF is attracting now in fortress play, foolish kings walking around with their pant zipper open.

[Imp]

How about this?

The very, very best and brightest of the various races are taken to become merchants, and only the absolute best of those are granted wagons to lead.

Somewhat like ninja, these beings are amazing at finding paths from a distance and with almost no clues (if there's a way for a wagon to reach your Depot, the wagons will spawn so it can be reached, even if your depot is hidden underground and sealed off from both your fortress and the vast majority of the map, a 'hidden merchant path' if you would).  Likewise, they can sense traps, somehow.

Maybe the night before they would arrive they drink a secret-recipe tea that grants them psychic sight, and like the main character of Next ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_(2007_film) ) they can sense the future and know right then the total and up to the second correct path to take to reach your depot or not by the rules they choose to follow.  Merchants of lesser skill, those granted pack beasts but not a wagon, are also not granted the recipe for this special psychic's tea, and thus appear at the edge of your map somewhere and approach or wait as they must (unless a wagon-merchant agrees to approach and guides them).

Merchants are psychic.

That's the only possible way they can tell, when I build 1 or 2 or 3 different 'right at the edge of the map, and sealed off from the rest of the map by rising bridges' little pathways to ramps that lead down, through twists and turns, to a depot, but not to my fortress.  And they can tell if I've raised a barrier to block that path's access to the depot.  And they are 'right' in their knowledge as of the very instant that they appear on my map.

So they're psychic.  And they've decided, collectively across all the worlds we play, that they no longer are willing to drive over traps.  Maybe someday they'll change their mind.

But knowing where the traps are is no more or less weird or spooky than anything else about wagon merchants, who are clearly amazingly gifted beings.

[GreatWyrmGold]

knutor: Traders don't get hit by traps, and when humans siege you traps their traders have seen don't hit them, either. I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence that the dwarves warn the traders where not to step. Wagons aren't maneuverable enough to do that, and large, serrated steel disks are so hard on the axles...which is assuming that the traps are entirely concealed in the ground and/or walls. If there's a bumpy bit, traps could stop wagons the way boulders do.

[knutor]

@Imp, I like that, psychic merchants.  Has a nice ring to it.  Maybe include mind flayers from the deep, as a contender.  Or the Next type entity, that rolls the bones, and dreams two minutes into his own destiny.  Ever hear of those shops that travel from city to city, just appearing on empty brick walls, that sell magic items?  Something like those.  Cept for trading, instead of selling. 

@GreatWyrmGold, yup.  Problem I see, is we are being penalized all types of traps, as a result of a few that maybe hard on a wagon axle or wheel.  Dragon Mountain module in D&D had a nifty trap.  Wand trap.  Those Kobolds stole loot from the Dragon and used it in their traps.

Wand trap, did something like this.  Magic flew from wand when triggered, and shot the target, it shrank down to wee tiny size, and fell into a crevice.  The crevice had a pouch lining the inside, like a tall garbage bag in a kitchen waste bin, to collect all the unlucky shrunken trespassers. 

[GreatWyrmGold]

@Imp, I like that, psychic merchants.  Has a nice ring to it.  Maybe include mind flayers from the deep, as a contender.  Or the Next type entity, that rolls the bones, and dreams two minutes into his own destiny.  Ever hear of those shops that travel from city to city, just appearing on empty brick walls, that sell magic items?  Something like those.  Cept for trading, instead of selling. 

...I can honestly say I've never heard of those.

@GreatWyrmGold, yup.  Problem I see, is we are being penalized all types of traps, as a result of a few that maybe hard on a wagon axle or wheel.

I'd say that, between what we put in our weapon traps and the weight of stone, only cage traps are likely to be safe for wagons, and we don't know how those work.
I agree that the traps are currently underdone, what with DF being in alpha...

  Dragon Mountain module in D&D had a nifty trap.  Wand trap.  Those Kobolds stole loot from the Dragon and used it in their traps.

Wand trap, did something like this.  Magic flew from wand when triggered, and shot the target, it shrank down to wee tiny size, and fell into a crevice.  The crevice had a pouch lining the inside, like a tall garbage bag in a kitchen waste bin, to collect all the unlucky shrunken trespassers.

Neat but not relevant. Also, wouldn't it need to be reloaded every 50 fies?

[Imp]

@Imp, I like that, psychic merchants.  Has a nice ring to it.  Maybe include mind flayers from the deep, as a contender.  Or the Next type entity, that rolls the bones, and dreams two minutes into his own destiny.  Ever hear of those shops that travel from city to city, just appearing on empty brick walls, that sell magic items?  Something like those.  Cept for trading, instead of selling. 

...I can honestly say I've never heard of those.

I am familiar enough with the concept that I'd definately enter one, if I ever were lucky enough to find one.  I'd come bearing gifts, and ask for a job.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLittleShopThatWasntThereYesterday

[GreatWyrmGold]

@Imp, I like that, psychic merchants.  Has a nice ring to it.  Maybe include mind flayers from the deep, as a contender.  Or the Next type entity, that rolls the bones, and dreams two minutes into his own destiny.  Ever hear of those shops that travel from city to city, just appearing on empty brick walls, that sell magic items?  Something like those.  Cept for trading, instead of selling. 

...I can honestly say I've never heard of those.

I am familiar enough with the concept that I'd definately enter one, if I ever were lucky enough to find one.  I'd come bearing gifts, and ask for a job.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLittleShopThatWasntThereYesterday

Oh, I thought you meant IRL.