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[Mr. Palau]

Okay, first off, I tried searching for this and didn't find any other topics, although I guess some have already been made, this thread is in case there have not been thread about this.

We all know that headshots are pretty much instadeaths in DF, as they shatter the skull quite often, which causes instant death. Now, I have seen my animals and my dwarves get in fights all the time. They normally only bruise each other, sometimes one of the animals will bruise a lung, but they never break a bone bigger than the ear or a finger.  Then one of them gets a lucky head shot in and kills the other one out right. I don't think I have ever seen them break an arm or a leg or a rib.

My complaint here is that it is much easier to break a leg, an arm, or a rib then it is to have your skull shattered. Also a punch shouldn't outright shatter the skull nearly as much as it does, most of those hits in real life would lead to various bruises, fractures, or concussions, almost all of which would not lead to death.

So my point is that the head should just be made tougher, atleast as hard to break as a arm, and hopefully more so. I think an arm would be sufficent as I have hardly ever seen one of those break in unarmed combat.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Actually, shattering the skull does NOTHING--it's only the brain that matters.

I suppose that making skulls tougher could make sense, but you CAN get fatal brain damage from a punch.

[Neonivek]

Actually, shattering the skull does NOTHING--it's only the brain that matters.

I suppose that making skulls tougher could make sense, but you CAN get fatal brain damage from a punch.

I think it may have to deal more with the fact that shape isn't taken into account.

Yeah the skull isn't that much thicker then just about any other bone in your body, but the game doesn't treat its dome as anything special. You can quite litterally break all the bones in your hand punching someone's head incorrectly and not deal a single bit of damage to them back.

[Mr. Palau]

Actually, shattering the skull does NOTHING--it's only the brain that matters.

I suppose that making skulls tougher could make sense, but you CAN get fatal brain damage from a punch.

well I was refering to the shattering the skull and tearing the brain phenomena, and in DF I have never seen a skull shattered without the victim enduring fatal brain damage.

And while you can get fatal brain damage from violence in real life, it does not occur at nearly the rate it does in Dwarf Fortress.

Perhaps the brain could be bruised through the skull instead of being torn to bits. Mild bruises result in just temporary disorientation, moderate in a concussion requiring imediate hospitalization (in DF tossing them in a bed and giving them bread and water), and sever resulting in eventual death.

[Neonivek]

And while you can get fatal brain damage from violence in real life, it does not occur at nearly the rate it does in Dwarf Fortress

I find it to be the exact opposite.

Head injuries in real life barely break open the skull most of the time.

Head Injuries in Dwarf Fortress tend to be the kind that dust or destroy the entire skull... and yet UNLESS there is a brain injury to go along with it, the individual is perfectly unharmed he just needs to rest until his skull defragments.

It gets especially silly if you constantly dust an opponents skull and still have not killed him (it is one of the reasons why Blunt weapons are underpowered)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Smaller enemies are small enough that any attack which damages the skull probably damages the brain, but not always. It happens more often when, say, one adventurer is fighting a titan. I can't tell you how often I've had to stab, slash, or bash a titan's head hundreds of times, shattering the skull plenty, before it finally took the hint and died.

I think that nonlethal brain damage and negative effects of shattered skulls should both be implemented.

[Mr. Palau]

I've never played adventure extensively mode so I have no personal combat experince.

[Neonivek]

I've never played adventure extensively mode so I have no personal combat experince.

O_O

[Mr. Palau]

I've played a couple of times but in total it was probably only 24 hours.

[tyrannus007]

It seems like all fights end with somebody's skull getting jammed into their brain. It seems very hard to kill people through torso wounds. Even if their heart gets ripped apart, they keep on fighting for a decent amount of time.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, part of the "fights end with head wounds" is due to the tendency of fighting people to go unconscious or to pass out from pain, and thereby get their skulls mashed.
The general idea is right, but as much because the game isn't told why the heart is so important.

[Bytyan]

Generally, all organs should be more important then they are now. Brusing a liver or kidneys is a debilitating injury, let me tell you.

[tyrannus007]

In the raws, the brain has a relsize of 200, much larger than the skull (20). That's probably why there's all this brain jamming. However, the raws also say this is temporary until hollowness is implemented.
Also, if someone is unconscious with mortal wounds in a battle, their attacker should assume they're dead, or finish them off with one quick blow. Right now, they seem to gradually break every bone in their body, or methodically disembowel and dismember them like some sort of psychopath.

[Revanchist]

Would that constitute as a more long-term impairement than the decideably instantly lethal case of pulverizing ones brain... Unless you're a hydra or something, but this thread pertains to dwarves.

[GreatWyrmGold]

In the raws, the brain has a relsize of 200, much larger than the skull (20). That's probably why there's all this brain jamming. However, the raws also say this is temporary until hollowness is implemented.
Also, if someone is unconscious with mortal wounds in a battle, their attacker should assume they're dead, or finish them off with one quick blow. Right now, they seem to gradually break every bone in their body, or methodically disembowel and dismember them like some sort of psychopath.

Actually, they always go for the head once the opponent is unconscious. Although they will keep wrestling with other parts if they grabbed those parts beforehand...