Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7

Author Topic: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting  (Read 14355 times)

FearfulJesuit

  • Bay Watcher
  • True neoliberalism has never been tried
    • View Profile
First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« on: October 30, 2012, 10:46:42 pm »

As almost a full year and five hundred pages of the election season and thread draw to a close in a week, we can start to reflect on the whole rollicking ride of the journey.

Over that time, one theme that has kept recurring has been the flaws of the U. S. Constitution. Now don't get me wrong: I adore the U. S. Constitution. The American government works on an entirely different engine from just about every country I can think of, but it still works- and it's been working like that for two hundred and twenty-two years. During that time, it's been able to support the country during its transition from an 18th-century agrarian country of four million, to a 19th-century rising industrial power of fifty million, to its current incarnation as the world's 300 million-plus strong sole (though not for long!) superpower, surviving western expansion, civil war, the forcible end of half the country's economic engine, mass immigration, two world wars, a depression, and the Cold War. And it's done this- if we count the Bill of Rights as being part of the original document, which for most intents and purposes they are- only having had to be edited thirteen times, one of which is no longer in force, and many of the others of which are decidedly minor.

Still, there's a vocal number of us who think it could use a bit of tweaking. Tomorrow, when I have a lot of time and nothing to do with it, I'll write another post to expand on my own ideas, but for now, here's some of the stuff that's come up most:

-It's becoming increasingly clear that the Electoral College is an egregious violation of the principle of "one man, one vote", and probably needs to be changed- not necessarily abolished completely, but changed.
-Many of us have expressed disapproval of the two-party system, and the huge barrier to third-party entry. I'll expand on this later, too.
-The original Constitution's biggest oversight, I would argue, was that the Framers assumed political parties wouldn't form, so the system was never built to accommodate them; the result has been that when parties have worked, they've worked well, but when they haven't, such as the current time of writing, they've been a huge bug in the system.
-Division of rights between the feds, the states and the people. Man, if there's anything I'd like to go back in time and make the Framers be more clear on, this would probably be the one. Obviously they couldn't have foreseen particular questions like drug use or abortion, but we've currently got a system where the interstate commerce clause is used as a necessary loophole for the feds to deal with whatever they need to deal with, even if it's not necessarily all that focused on interstate commerce. That's not a bad thing, per se, but it's very easily abused and should probably be expanded on.
-The population of the United States has increased by a factor of eighty from the signing of the Constitution. Quantity, as we know, really is its own quality, and maybe there are areas where something that worked in a small country doesn't work so well today. I don't know; let's talk about it.
-Voting systems. 'Nuff said. Let's try not to cause a flamewar with this, shall we?

The purpose of this isn't necessarily to create an end-product full proposed Constitution redo, although goodness knows we have enough political junkies who might take a crack at writing them from scratch, including myself, and those are certainly more than welcome to make their appearances. Rather, the point is to discuss what works, what doesn't, and what could work better. It's about the journey- it has to be, since I don't think we'll ever come up with a destination.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 11:23:26 pm by dhokarena56 »
Logged


@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

misko27

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lawful Neutral; Prophet of Pestilence
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2012, 11:16:00 pm »

Oh awesome. I'll love to help with this. Tommorow. Must sleep.
Logged
The Age of Man is over. It is the Fire's turn now

Bohandas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Discordia Vobis Com Et Cum Spiritum
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 11:29:14 pm »

Also some parts of the Bill of Rights could use some tweaking:

*the First Amendment  needs to be more forcefully rewritten.

Among other things:
-It needs to include explicit protections for seditious speech as well as for pornography (including not only regular pornography but also so-called "extreme pornography" and "pornography of violence"), and blasphemy.
-The freedom of the press should be expanded in such a way that government recognition of Intellectual Property claims other than patents are explicitly banned.
-Given ongoing advances in neurology, and in light of already existing abuses such as Project MKUltra, freedom of thought should probably be included along with freedom of speech, religion, and the press 
-It needs sterner provisions preventing religious groups, particularly mainstream Western religious groups, from influencing the government


*The Eighth Amendment needs to be rewritten to allow for the torture and execution for treason of legislators who repeatedly attempt to pass laws contravening the Bill of Rights as well as members of the judiciary who uphold them.

--------------------------------------------------

*Furthermore, the following passage absolutely MUST BE DELETED from Article II Section I:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

We don't need this shit, especially not the italicized part (the rest could get away with merely being tweaked)

--------------------------------------------

The government needs to be explicitly banned from giving corporations the same or greater rights as people.

--------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 11:36:07 pm by Bohandas »
Logged
NEW Petition to stop the anti-consumer, anti-worker, Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement
What is TPP
----------------------
Remember, no one can tell you who you are except an emotionally unattached outside observer making quantifiable measurements.
----------------------
Έπαινος Ερις

TheBronzePickle

  • Bay Watcher
  • Why am I doing this?
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2012, 11:33:17 pm »

Torture isn't all that great of a deterrent. Pisses too many people off.

I think it would be better if they were stripped of their property and status and forced to start from rags. It's a much more hefty punishment than death.
Logged
Nothing important here, move along.

misko27

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lawful Neutral; Prophet of Pestilence
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 11:36:02 pm »

2nd amendment must go. Who the hell needs a militia? Whens the last time you heard in the news about something constructive coming from them? And where are your guns? I'm sure losing that wouldn't impact ownership much. I sincerly doubt anyone will ever infringe upon that right anway, what with the lobbies.

I Demand the 7th amendmant be Kept as it is. Exactly.
Logged
The Age of Man is over. It is the Fire's turn now

FearfulJesuit

  • Bay Watcher
  • True neoliberalism has never been tried
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 11:39:37 pm »

Torture isn't all that great of a deterrent. Pisses too many people off.

I think it would be better if they were stripped of their property and status and forced to start from rags. It's a much more hefty punishment than death.

But here's the problem- who decides whether or not a law is unconstitutional? Well, the judiciary, of course. So...the judiciary should be watching the judiciary?

As for copyright law- it's broken, of course. But it shouldn't be abolished entirely. I support copyright protection until the creator's death or 30 years for books, 20 years for music, and 10 for everything else, whichever comes first.
Logged


@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

MrWiggles

  • Bay Watcher
  • Doubt Everything
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 12:22:23 am »

Explicit language isn't stronger language, its actually weaker language. Freedom of Speech(renamed Freedom of Expression?), already covers freedom of thought, blasphemy, all that shenanigans.

Freedom of Privacy could use some explicit language. Its a derived Right, but not an explicit Right.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the Constitution. The only real change I'd like to see is term limits on Congressmen, and Term Limits on Supreme Court Judges. I'd also like there to be means for an 3rd party ethical committee. I'd also like there to be provision for Objective matters to be evidence based instead of emotionally based, where/when ever possible.
Logged
Doesn't like running from bears = clearly isn't an Eastern European
I'm Making a Mush! Navitas: City Limits ~ Inspired by Dresden Files and SCP.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113699.msg3470055#msg3470055
http://www.tf2items.com/id/MisterWigggles666#

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 12:33:45 am »

I hereby present to you the Second Bill of Rights.










« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 02:10:42 am by MetalSlimeHunt »
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Euld

  • Bay Watcher
  • There's coffee in that nebula ಠ_ರೃ
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 12:43:18 am »

Well if the FBI weren't reading these forums before, they're definitely reading them now  :o

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 12:47:47 am »

...Why? We're just discussing legal reform.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Tellemurius

  • Bay Watcher
  • Positively insane Tech Thaumaturgist
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 01:14:11 am »

...Why? We're just discussing legal reform.
I believe the torturing legislators part did it.

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 01:20:13 am »

...Why? We're just discussing legal reform.
I believe the torturing legislators part did it.
I'm pretty sure I missed that part.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

misko27

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lawful Neutral; Prophet of Pestilence
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2012, 01:29:40 am »

Well if the FBI weren't reading these forums before, they're definitely reading them now  :o
Oh shit. They're going to read the bay12 space program thread aren't they?

I'll be seeing be in Mexico if someone needs me.
Logged
The Age of Man is over. It is the Fire's turn now

kaijyuu

  • Bay Watcher
  • Hrm...
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2012, 01:30:43 am »

Quote
The rights enumerated in this Constitution shall be considered by the Congress and the States and the Courts and the lawfully appointed Judges thereof to apply to all peoples everywhere, regardless of citizenship within the United States, excepting the right to vote.
Curious how this would affect foreign policy :P
Logged
Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Scelly9

  • Bay Watcher
  • That crazy long-haired queer liberal communist
    • View Profile
Re: First Bay Twelve Symposium on Constitutional Rewriting
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 01:31:34 am »

Oh, this sounds fun. PTW
Logged
You taste the jug! It is ceramic.
Quote from: Loud Whispers
SUPPORT THE COMMUNIST GAY MOVEMENT!
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7