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[KA101]

The crime-free LCS thread got me thinking: I know that tangible sleeper actions such as snooping or stealing only take place at end/month, and so far as I can tell only have an effect then.  (Ordering to snoop on the 4th is no more/less effective than so ordering on the 24th, at least to my knowledge.)

Joining the active LCS completes on the next day, so that's pretty quick.

In the rare instances where one can expand the network, those have pretty quick turnaround--usually the new sleeper shows up in a day or three.

But I'm not at all certain about Promoting Liberalism.  I'm guessing that PL efforts (which may or may not be successful/effective) happen on a daily basis, and being set to Promote Liberalism adjusts the sleeper's effectiveness every few days or so?

Thoughts & insights appreciated; thanks much.

[BoxOfAids]

While I have no idea how promoting liberalism works for sleepers, I'm pretty sure that each power role sleeper can affect a related issue at the start of each month just for being a sleeper. For example, having a Hangin' Judge sleeper can influence the public opinion on the liberal judges issue at the start of each month. If I've read this correctly, they do this automatically, without being set to promote liberalism, so it would make sense that promoting liberalism could be more of a day-by-day thing rather than monthly. These monthly checks are based on Charisma, Heart, Intelligence, and Persuasion of the sleepers. Additionally, certain sleepers get more influence from their creature-related skills, meaning that a Lawyer gets more influence if they have more Law skill. Elite Conservative sleepers get significantly more power.


Edit - Here's the comments in code:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

/**********************************************************************
** *JDS*
** ----- The sleeper system has been completely reworked.
** - Sleepers no longer directly influence the issues. They now affect
** the broad "liberal power" stats across many issues, which are used
** as a kind of monthly liberal roll akin to AM Radio and Cable News.
** - Each sleeper can affect one or more issue, throwing their power
** into the "abstracted debate" on that issue.
** - After all of the sleepers have contributed to the liberal power
** stats, a roll is made on each issue to see whether the liberals
** make background progress on those issues.
** - Several sleepers have special abilities. Lawyers and Judges, as
** always, can aid your people in the legal system. Police officers,
** corporate managers, CEOs, and agents can all now leak secret
** documents of the appropriate types, and they will make a check
** each month. This will only happen if the homeless shelter is not
** under siege, and "canseethings" is enabled (eg, you're not in prison
** or disbanded or some other situation where your sleeper can't get
** in touch with anyone in your squad).
** - News Anchors and Radio Personalities remain the two most powerful
** sleepers.
**********************************************************************/


Also of note: there is nothing about promoting liberalism in the /monthly/sleeper_update.cpp file, so take that as you will.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I'm pretty sure promoting liberalism is monthly; if it were more regularly than the other sleeper actions, you would be best off microing your sleepers to have them promote liberalism or lay low throughout most of the month, then switch to another thing at the end of the month.

[Pesi]

Promoting liberalism happens at the end of the month, like everything else. Doing so causes the sleepers to lose effectiveness%. Their efforts are multiplied by this, so at 0% they stop having any effect. Unless they are members of the conservative media, in which case they give a hard-coded 1% movement to their respective establishment ratings.

At 100% and all relevant stats at 10 the default effect is that of 16 successful letters-to-the-editor (if my calculations are correct).

[KA101]

Well, since I have no idea about letters-to-editor effectiveness, that's useful perspective but not a precise fit.  Better than nothing, though, and thanks therefor.

(Leaving aside that anyone who is likely to be at 100 probably has relevant stats higher than 10--News Anchors and such tend to have decent stats in their respective fields, as well as Infamy XP--but I understand the need for workable numbers.)

[Funk]

ok this is abit off topic but why dont sleeper give ammo as well as guns?

[KA101]

ok this is abit off topic but why dont sleeper give ammo as well as guns?

No worries.  As I hijack threads, so shall my threads be hijacked.

I've found that ammo per se is never laying around on-site.  It's either on a shelf (in the pawnshop, safe, armory, or safehouse), a person, or a corpse.  But one never goes to a ~$~ symbol and gets 9xAslt/Rifle Mag.  I'd guess that sleeper-stolen objects come from the sleeper's workplace's loot table, and since ammo can't be found as site loot (as opposed to kill-loot), it never shows up.

[Funk]

i did some checking and all items come from there own table.
and im sure ammo can be found as site loot as i remmber add large ammo clips in and finding some at the army base.
and why dont sleeper come with there work items?

when i find out what i need to change ill try to up load them to the SVN.

[KA101]

OK, good to know (though the modded magazines might be a confounding factor?).  Not sure what you mean by the sleeper coming with their work items--if, for example, a Soldier kept losing xyr M16 month after month, that might reduce xyr Effectiveness a bit when the Military Officer in charge of the Armory starts asking questions.  Same with Army Armor.

But if you pulled that same Soldier to the active LCS, then yeah, I'd expect xyr to at least have a roll (Persuade, Stealth, or Disguise seem appropriate) to bring restricted gear along.

Good luck with the code-diving, in any event.

[Funk]

i mean when there ordered to join the active lcs.

[KoboldSmasher]

Sorry for the offtopic, but i have a question about sleeper actions.

Is it harmful for the sleeper to promote liberalism? Because i have 4 sleeper judges who are currently laying low because i dont want them to lose their position or anything, but can i set them to promote liberalism with only a positive outcome?

[Pesi]

Are they Hangin' Judges? If not, nobody will listen to them.

[KA101]

Sorry for the offtopic, but i have a question about sleeper actions.

Is it harmful for the sleeper to promote liberalism? Because i have 4 sleeper judges who are currently laying low because i dont want them to lose their position or anything, but can i set them to promote liberalism with only a positive outcome?

That's on topic, so far as I'm concerned, and I opened the thread so I think I'd know.  I reject your apology!

Pesi's right that Liberal sleepers typically have low effectiveness--therefore, they won't accomplish much Promoting Liberalism.  If you have them Lay Low for a year or two they'll jump to about 40% effectiveness, which is better.  But I don't think they can be fired for Promoting Liberalism, though, nor will it backfire and Promote Conservatism or something horrible like that.

Promoting Liberalism doesn't seem to Juice the sleepers though, so no real need to do it unless the active squads can't take action.  I recruit sleeper Judges just for the insurance come record-cleanup time.

[Pesi]

The point is not that they have low effectiveness.

I mean that each type of sleeper has a list of issues that they affect when they promote liberalism.

For Child workers, Genetic monsters, Guard dogs, Transients, Crack heads, Tanks, Hippies, Union workers, Liberal Judges, Political activists and Mutants; this list is empty.

[KA101]

The point is not that they have low effectiveness.

I mean that each type of sleeper has a list of issues that they affect when they promote liberalism.

For Child workers, Genetic monsters, Guard dogs, Transients, Crack heads, Tanks, Hippies, Union workers, Liberal Judges, Political activists and Mutants; this list is empty.

Heh?



I can understand stuff like guard dogs & transients not having any particular platform, but Liberal Judges should be able to speak at conferences, CLEs, and such; Union workers promote their local; Mutants could do a street-corner speech on pollution; and that Political Activists can't actually...be...activists...I dunno, that feels like questionable programming.

Request:
Child workers & union members ought to be able to affect Labor Law.  (The child either makes effective arguments, looks pitiful, does some other persuasive thing, or some combination thereof; the union worker promotes unionization)
Liberal Judges ought to be able to affect Liberal Judiciary at least.  (IRL judges tend to focus on particular legal niches: selecting something like Tax Structure, Privacy Rights, Death Penalty, or similar wouldn't be amiss IMO.)
Mutants may or may not have opinions on Pollution and Nuclear Power.
Political Activists seem like they might affect one or two random issues (let the player know at recruitment?).
Crack Heads could conceivably speak to Drug Policy.  (Probably ineffective unless they get Juiced, but that seems reasonable)
A genetic monster as a sleeper probably wouldn't be able to accomplish anything IMO.  (It's in a cage at the lab, or at best the CEO's pet; they also take 15 Heart to talk to so simple language barriers could be a problem).

It's one thing to not have an audience (low Effectiveness).  It's another thing to never be able to have an effect.  If nothing else, I'd think Pesi's info is an excellent candidate for the wiki.

Thanks for that clarification, in any event.