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[Loud Whispers]

It was always annoying solely because people would constantly make unfunny 'jokes' about it and draw attention to the fact that there were things being hidden from new players, which would inevitably result in "what are you talking about?".

The only question would be to ask if this is an epidemic? This is truly horrifying, but in truth what I've seen most of is not this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's actual spoilers in spoiler tags that immediately run into spoily stuff. I could understand if you said that there were DF spoilers outside the tags, but c'mon guys. Spoiler tags are used in this forum for things other than spoilers :/

[Pyro627]

The problem is that this forum seems to have hybridized spoiler tags and collapsible sections.

[Michael]

My favorite moments in the game are when something unexpected happens and I have to overcome it. Not knowing what to expect and when to expect it are really big factors to me for enjoying the game.

But then still many other, more mundane facts visible in the wiki allow people to learn without burning their hands directly.  For example, the fact that certain lightweight opponents (completely separate from the circus) can avoid traps and pick locks on doors.  What I mean is, by that logic the "Security Design" wiki page should be just as obscured as "Raw Adamantine".

From what I've read it seems the current circus is balanced on the assumption the player knows what to expect.  Total spoilage doesn't sound like it would be enough for a competent player to expect victory on his first personal try.   To deny them even that seems like schadenfreude to me.

One other thought.  Perhaps secrecy would have made a difference back in the 2-D days. When the DF community initially discovered demons, most of their shock value came from the fact that they were both heavy hitters and trap-avoiding.  Once players knew they had to rely only on soldiers for the end fight, they had a much better chance.  And then someone discovered that the demons were atom-smashable (a loophole now fixed), and they were an annoyance.

So, that was confusing. I thought there was a Circus layer underneath Hell. I knew about demons, but not about clowns!

Actually, 2-D did have two layers of Circus.  However, the second layer was absolutely unbeatable.

[Kogan Loloklam]

(Also, on a related (unrelated to the topic at hand) note, I personally seek to restore "decimation" to its originally intended meaning (at least in quantity, if not to full-on purpose).  I believe that what I need to do is 'memetically engineer' the term so that it out-competes its inferior modern usurper-strain...  But something tells me that I should not be satisfied with merely decimating the latter's proportion of infiltration, for I need much more than a 10% eradication of the Young Pretender meaning to the term!!!)

I'd say try a couple of decimations, but that wouldn't work either, would it?



Now, on to the Clowny Circus.

I think I'm on record of saying it was stupid. Both from the practically-new players that were using it at the time and from the really new players who took it up. My opposition was because it did not hide anything while sounding stupid.

HFS is perfectly adequate, and still is. You all think digging too deep is the only "HFS"?

Spoiler: If you are new, don't click (click to show/hide)

Demons (paticularly leading civilizations).
Forgotten Beasts
Syndrome Blood
Boogie Men(until that version was released.)
The "fun" cave people.
Another secret fun thing known only in adventure mode(adventure mode people are better at keeping silent.)
"Easter Eggs"
Deities
Other stuff I haven't found yet.

Clowns and other statements like that remain stupid, but are probably here to stay because people who break through that layer think it's a "Grand Challenge", most likely because they didn't discover it naturally and don't know how to deal with worse threats.

What worse threats? The Anti-HFS. The real #1 killer for forts. Once you can deal with that, HFS is a weak challenge. Just ask Ironblood.

What was the defining moment of Boatmurdered? Ask that next time you are about to call demons clowns meaning anything except disrespect.

(Edit: when you discount my first encounters with the new fluid HFS, Raccoons still remain the #1 killer in my fort. #2 is Rhesus Macaque. If you don't know why instantly, you need to stop digging so deep for a few fortresses.)

[Pyro627]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Another secret fun thing known only in adventure mode

Could you elaborate on this? I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Trif]

From what I've read it seems the current circus is balanced on the assumption the player knows what to expect.  Total spoilage doesn't sound like it would be enough for a competent player to expect victory on his first personal try.   To deny them even that seems like schadenfreude to me.

The current circus is balanced to kill you. It's not the final challenge, it's called ENDGAME_EVENT in the announcements. No matter how prepared you are, there are infinite clowns in the circus. You win by losing.

Granted, nothing beats dwarven ingenuity and players always found a way to laugh in the face of certain death, but the intention of HFS is to end your fortress because you were too greedy.

[Loud Whispers]

No matter how prepared you are, there are infinite clowns in the circus. You win by losing.

Well... The clown car isn't endless. Aussie pretty much owned that one to hell and back.

[Pyro627]

Are you seriously using the circus names here? In this thread?

[Loud Whispers]

Are you seriously using the circus names here? In this thread?

ITT: Get mad

[Sprin]

Whats funny is I new far well what happens if you dig in candy the first time I did it, and I still dug to deep!

[riffraffselbow]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is Milhouse a meme?

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is Milhouse a meme?

[Michael]

Are you seriously using the circus names here? In this thread?

It's because we use the Circus vocabulary as euphemism, not code.

Also in one small respect it is more precise.  "Clown" only refers to the demons released from digging too deep -- the demons that lead goblins are a separate issue.

By the way, this reveals a flaw in the wiki.  The latter class of demon is only mentioned as an afterthought within the spoilered "Demon" page that mostly discusses clowns.  Hence there is no way to ask the wiki for help about a demon accompanying a goblin siege, without spoiling oneself about the circus proper.

[Putnam]

Are you seriously using the circus names here? In this thread?

Also in one small respect it is more precise.  "Clown" only refers to the demons released from digging too deep -- the demons that lead goblins are a separate issue.

They're the same thing, though, in every way. Goblin-leading demons just happened to escape from hell.

[Loud Whispers]

Are you seriously using the circus names here? In this thread?

Also in one small respect it is more precise.  "Clown" only refers to the demons released from digging too deep -- the demons that lead goblins are a separate issue.

They're the same thing, though, in every way. Goblin-leading demons just happened to escape from hell.

No, those are unique demons. Otherwise they're clowns.