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[Putnam]

It's a joke, colloquial term, and a meme. The definition is broader than you think.

So "piping hot" is a meme. Got it.

No, but candy is. It's a euphemism. It's not a "saying". It's a term that got spread around through an internet forum. How is that not a meme???

[GreatWyrmGold]

It's a joke, colloquial term, and a meme. The definition is broader than you think.

So "piping hot" is a meme. Got it.

No, but candy is. It's a euphemism. It's not a "saying". It's a term that got spread around through an internet forum. How is that not a meme???

Because no one knows what a meme is?

[Loud Whispers]

It's a joke, colloquial term, and a meme. The definition is broader than you think.

So "piping hot" is a meme. Got it.

No, but candy is. It's a euphemism. It's not a "saying".

Neither is piping hot. The only difference is the medium. So piping hot is a meme. Memes are not terms any more than euphemisms are memes.

[Putnam]

The other difference being that candy fits the definition of meme and "piping hot" doesn't.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Piping hot burn!

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The other difference being that candy fits the definition of meme and "piping hot" doesn't.

It's a joke

Covered. Original Navy meaning to get the food while the pipe was hot. The pipe was a musical instrument. It was a joke to get food from the galleys ASAP.

colloquial term

Quite

and a meme. The definition is broader than you think.

So it is now a meme.

Except it's not, and that's because that is not what a meme is.

If you want to continue discussing this, please take it to PM's. If the whole argument is that it's a joke and a colloquial term which is why we should murderize anyone who says it in these forums, that's more relevant.

Namely, addressing this post:

Because cottoncandy/circus/clowns is just a useless, bad meme. And that's why we'll never fully be able to get rid of it, because like every useless bad meme in any internet community, the newer members will perpetuate it, in an effort to demonstrate that they belong.

Magma, is not a meme.
Magma, in all caps size 36 bold burning red colour, glow and shading, is.

I stand by cotton candy and all it represents.

[misko27]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The other difference being that candy fits the definition of meme and "piping hot" doesn't.

It's a joke

Covered. Original Navy meaning to get the food while the pipe was hot. The pipe was a musical instrument. It was a joke to get food from the galleys ASAP.

colloquial term

Quite

and a meme. The definition is broader than you think.

So it is now a meme.

Except it's not, and that's because that is not what a meme is.

If you want to continue discussing this, please take it to PM's. If the whole argument is that it's a joke and a colloquial term which is why we should murderize anyone who says it in these forums, that's more relevant.

Namely, addressing this post:

Because cottoncandy/circus/clowns is just a useless, bad meme. And that's why we'll never fully be able to get rid of it, because like every useless bad meme in any internet community, the newer members will perpetuate it, in an effort to demonstrate that they belong.

Magma, is not a meme.
Magma, in all caps size 36 bold burning red colour, glow and shading, is.

I stand by cotton candy and all it represents.

Me too. *salute to the spire*

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hm...well, I really do need to read more Dawkins, but according to Wikipedia, a meme is " an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture." Idioms would probably qualify.

[Michael]

I do find the notion that HFS should not be mentioned to new players to be rather silly.  The fact "some tiles of the most valuable ore in the game will trigger a massive attack upon your fortress when mined" doesn't strike me as any worse a spoiler than "many objects will anger the elves when offered in trade".

Speaking of the latter fact, I seem to recall Toady citing it as the reason the trade depot screen does not mark wooden items. He wanted players to discover that elven quirk directly, but the Dwarf Fortress wiki doesn't respect his wish there....


However, I don't fault anyone for using the Circus vocabulary.  It's silly as a code, but quite amusing as a euphemism.

[Trif]

I do find the notion that HFS should not be mentioned to new players to be rather silly.  The fact "some tiles of the most valuable ore in the game will trigger a massive attack upon your fortress when mined" doesn't strike me as any worse a spoiler than "many objects will anger the elves when offered in trade".

The only difference is that the latter ends your trade, while the former ends your fortress. By warning a new player you spoil a lot of Fun for them.

[Michael]

By warning a new player you spoil a lot of Fun for them.

While there is something to the DF "losing is fun" motto, I would find a fortress loss due to a total-surprise demonic invasion quite unsatisfying.  At the same time, challenging the circus may be quite fun for someone who knows what he's getting into, even if he does eventually lose.

[Trif]

While there is something to the DF "losing is fun" motto, I would find a fortress loss due to a total-surprise demonic invasion quite unsatisfying.  At the same time, challenging the circus may be quite fun for someone who knows what he's getting into, even if he does eventually lose.

My favorite moments in the game are when something unexpected happens and I have to overcome it. Not knowing what to expect and when to expect it are really big factors to me for enjoying the game.
That said, I can see how a newbie can become frustrated if he dies without any chance, the circus is meant to be the late end-game after all. If a new player found candy right in his first fortress before even having a military, I'd probably tell him not to mine it out yet. Candy boosting your fortune and attracting more goblins is a good excuse and not even a lie. I wouldn't lose a word about demons, though, at least not in the candy context.

I always stress the importance of a military, and if a new player is capable of handling goblin ambushes and has explored the most important industries and then finds candy on their own, I'd probably not discourage them and have a good laugh when they get to the clown center of the candy pop.

So, what I'm saying is, you can keep new players out of trouble without telling them everything, and Losing is Fun when you can fight it.

[hops]

MY UNDERSTANDING OF MEME
by Objective Chambers

"I will show you annoyance in a pageful of macros."

-T.S. "Butch" Eliot

"My first thought was, he is memeophobic."

-Robert "Sundance" Browning


The 4chan founder is the meme.

m00t is the meme.

The Internet User is the meme.

The Nerdiness is the meme.

The Internet User and the Nerdiness are married. That is the meme.

The Internet is the meme.

The Chatting Anon is the meme.

We went to /b/ and that is the meme.

There were crazy psychos in /b/. That is the meme.

One of them is misdirecting people to Goatse, meatspin, lemonparty. That is the meme.

m00t founded 4chan. That is the meme.

I don't give a fuck about him.

That is the meme.

When is a meme not a meme? When it's an inside joke, and that is the meme.

Kittehz iz da meme.

Kittehz iz da meme.

What has four wheels and flies? A fucking aeroplane, and that is the meme.

Kitler iz da meme.

You have to watch Kitler all the time, Kitler is Hitler, and that is the meme.

I'm pretty sure that Kitler is dangerous, and that is the meme.

What is red all over and black and white? A monochrome rose, and that is the meme.

Kiter iz da meme.

I want to go back and that is the meme.

I have to go back and that is the meme.

I'll go crazy if I don't go back and that is the meme.

I can't go home again unless I find a dwarf a pick a candy and that is the meme.

YOLO-YOLO, and that is the meme.

YOLO-YOLO. YOLO-YOLO.

YOLO-YOLO. YOLO-YOLO. YOLO-YOLO.

YOLO-YOLO. YOLO-YOLO. YOLO-YOLO. YOLO-YOLO.

I am afraid. That is the meme.

YOLO-YOLO.

[kilozombie]

My two cents.

I'd known about Hell since I started the game because the forums told me. I'd already nearly pierced the slade layer, found a glowing pit, and was searching for adamantite.

Also on the forums was stuff called "candy", with "clowns" in the "circus". I assumed that "candy" was thousands of times better than adamantite. "Wow, is it UNDER hell and all the demons? Wow, clowns must be even HARDER..."

So, that was confusing. I thought there was a Circus layer underneath Hell. I knew about demons, but not about clowns!

The terminology doesn't help.

[Capntastic]

It was always annoying solely because people would constantly make unfunny 'jokes' about it and draw attention to the fact that there were things being hidden from new players, which would inevitably result in "what are you talking about?".